Cyknight

3 hours ago, Zuhair said:

 

In addition, the engineer who designed the DS2 did not put in his concediration customers who had thier old DS back box in concrete or marble? Atleast make the DS2 fits into the old box!

 

It wasn't engineered for C4 to begin with.

4 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

Calling an Apple store a "compute repair shop" isn't really accurate. 

Indeed, most can't repair anything at all. But I guess that wasn't your point.

14 hours ago, g8rfn2 said:

https://duncan3dc.github.io/sonos/controllers/queue/

All these must be old, then? Gotta be honest, it makes me even MORE frustrated that you used to be able to do it... and now u just can't.

smh

Oh lots of people share that thought - Sonos locked down what could be done (officially) and is more or less forcing partners to stick to the 'program', but a LOT was lost when that happened, and little has been regained.

2 minutes ago, g8rfn2 said:

So, there has to be a way to do it in the API.

Not at all. At least not based on that - Google is controlling Google - not Sonos in your example. In other words, Google is changing the stream on IT's end, whereas 3rd party needs to tell Sonos to do something as an intermediary.

3 minutes ago, g8rfn2 said:

This is one example of what leads me to believe it's possible:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/api-to-manage-the-sonos-music-lists-6790067

That looks like an old version, as AFAIK uPnP is the old interface that was blocked off - but other would know better than me.

52 minutes ago, g8rfn2 said:

I've reached out to one of the dealers on here to see if he can help me route a feature request to the Composer team. Fingers crossed.

Just FYI: AFAIK the C4 driver is using any and all features available in the API - there may be nothing C4 can do beyond passing it on to Sonos. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to try of course.

5 minutes ago, g8rfn2 said:

So, I had this exact debate with my dealer today.

I have 3 tstats in my home. All 3 of which were previously TCC Honeywells. For reasons totally unrelated to C4, i recently changed the 2 main floor units to ecobees with sensors to help balance temp a bit better. When I asked my dealer what the cost would be to integrate all 3 into C4... I'll just say it was a very small number for the ecobees, and a very large number for the Honeywell because of the price of the driver. In fact, I can change the 3rd tstat to an ecobee and get it installed into C4 for less than the cost of just the honeywell driver. 

Not trying to beat anyone up... Just stating some facts to give perspective. Sure, the customers who have a boat load of honeywells may find this a great deal. But, just giving the other side of the coin. 

That's because Control4 took over the driver for Ecobee and made it free.

18 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

what's the recommended path for someone with the NX-587e?  Is it an easy swap to the 584?  something that I can do or should be done by a security company?

It won't be 'easy' in C4, it'll have to be reprogrammed (well if all it was used for is arming disarming with no programming it'll be easy I suppose)  I'm not familiar enough with the panel to be sure, but one would assume you'll have to program the the new module into the panel, and clear the old one. Which would require the installer code for the panel.

11 hours ago, grant0830 said:

What about the NX8 panel? Any V2 panel driver for this?

... yes that what we're talking about - the nx584 is the module you need for the nx8 system, unless it's the nx8e in which case you use the same driver but you can use a direct cable

EDIT: Sorry Kevin, I replied without reading your reply....it was a late night working last night

11 minutes ago, C4junkie said:

Sorry to say old chap, but the game's up on Pro

Yes, because one closed dealer only company took over another closed dealer only company, all products will now be free and available directly to everyone.

Now THAT'S some solid reasoning WAP.

3 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

It's not based on a total lack of information. First, it's based on the idea that SnapAV bought Control4 to presumably increase its value. While I'll concede that is not a "fact"--I think we can all agree that it is true. A pretty obvious way to for SnapAV to increase the value of Control4 would be to expand the dealer base. It's also based on the fact that SnapAV has its own dealer constituency to deal with, many of which are likely going to want access to Control4 equipment. Finally, on a related note, it's based on the fact that SnapAV is by its nature a distributor. Don't you think it would be odd for a distributor to buy a product, and then not distribute it to its entire dealer base?

And what is Snap's current (direct) distribution area? One could project Snap got C4 in part to expand it's own distribution to a large group of people that currently do NOT have access to their equipment, or through a 3rd party that jacks up the prices.

One could also argue that SNAP bought C4 to increase SNAP's value.

Another one - C4 sold itself in an underhand deal for no other reason than to get off the stock market, and while SNAP's CEO will run the merged company, C4's is running the internal affairs from the board of directors.

Oh and here's one - the investment's company that basically OWNS snap want to make more money, and see C4 as a possible source of revenue.

Could keep coming up with other scenarios, but I hope the point is obvious - it's speculation, conjecture and guess work.

Quote

A pretty obvious way to for SnapAV to increase the value of Control4 would be to expand the dealer base

Is it? More dealers does not by default mean more sales.

Quote

It's also based on the fact that SnapAV has its own dealer constituency to deal with, many of which are likely going to want access to Control4 equipment

Do they? Does a Crestron dealer want to start doing Control4? While the first is an obvious fact, the second is assumption. Having a lawn means cutting grass, so of course there's going to be a hedge to prune.

3 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

I don't follow your logic here. If the dealer base expands, then naturally all dealers will face increased competition. I think that is a basic economic concept. Even if you compete only in higher market segments, there will still be a domino effect. For example, say dealer A only does high-end installs. And Dealer B does high end installs and small installs. Enter dealer C who competes against Dealer B on small installs, and wins some of those deals. How is Dealer B to make up for that lost revenue? Well presumably, now that Dealer B has lost revenue from small jobs, he will try to make it up by competing harder on high-end installs?  Result: Dealer A and B likely lose money. 

More dealers can also mean more exposure, leading to more sales - see your own argument above in increasing value.

Plus you're assuming the market is saturated - and thus more sales points means less sales per sales point. If that were the case, increasing the number of dealers would HURT, in the end, Control4 and SNAP and goes against your own argument that increasing dealers would increase value.

You're contradicting your own arguments here. Not to mention that I was talking about the landscape as a whole, not just three dealers in one area.

3 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

I see you are not willing to take me up on my bet!  Just kidding. 

Only because I don't gamble - ever.

Well that, and I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you're making some HUGE leaps in your reasoning and presenting it as fact.

Yeah, we're talking 584, not 587E

587E never got a 'panel' or if you prefer 'v2' update for that same reason, so now it can't be in OS3.

Yes, Security PANEL drivers - as opposed to Security SYSTEM driver - are the new proxy/interface drivers and work in OS3.

The one exception (that I believe has been fixed) was a 3rd party driver due to it inadvertently getting a separate flag.

Mind you if you have the old driver now, it may be quite a bit of work to replace it, depending on how much programming was done based on it.

? There's been an updated 'panel' river for the the NX584 for two years now.

1 hour ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Think you are all missing the point. 

Nah, you're missing the point that that is one option, and there are other to choose from.

I dropped alexa after a month. Just don't care for it. Nothing wrong with it - just don't WANT to chat with another woman in my house.

I don't want to SAY what I want to play, because I WANT to browse and see what's there.

I'll gladly take the much better sound I have than what Sonos can provide

That doesn't mean you don't point out a completely fair alternative - but this is one of those things that depend a lot on personal preference. Just because it's your ideal setup, doesn't mean it's for everyone - indeed it's not even an option for me personally.

7 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

I know they have. But if they had a plan to loosen the requirements, you think they would state that now? I think we can all agree they wouldn't.

Probably not, but they wouldn't clearly have stated the exact opposite.

7 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

But that won't change the fact that the dealers are going to face significantly increased competition.

What fact? That's speculation, as we've got no information to go on at this point. I get it, it may cause more companies to be exposed to the option, and yes they could become competition. But even if we follow that line of reasoning, that doesn't mean that much would change for the 'dealer group' as a whole at all - it could just weed out the worst, and introduce new capable people. Quite the opposite of the doom scenario some seem to want to paint on here that it would ruin C4's reputation.

But it's all still just based on speculation.

7 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

my prediction is at least a reasonable likelihood. 

It's a prediction based on lack of information - doesn't mean you may not be correct in the end, but so could a fortune teller at the fair.

7 hours ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

I would have some contingencies in place

Any small business owner should. Always.

On 6/6/2019 at 1:19 AM, Silvio Ney said:

I agree especially in #2, this is a nice play from control4 to increase t3 but giving options is a better choice. This is why Control4 is the best, because we can do anything. 

Wow what a quick jump to conclusion there. But yes it should be added to OSD, and the apps.

It's a BIG item on the dealer side of things too.

Just now, mstafford388 said:

Anyone who claims to know the motivation behind all of this is either very disconnected from reality or is turning opinions into facts to push some agenda. 

Or is liable to be sued for insider trading violations.

But heya Wapp! Good to see you can still turn random facts and speculations into what you seem to believe is a coherent argument for something completely unrelated.

You know, you'd do great on Ancient Aliens.

Driver is not 3.0 exclusive.

5 hours ago, sonic30101 said:

Also the PC app is dead in 3.0 though you can run blue stacks and vm android

Yep sorry, missed that part. I find running it on bluestacks is so much nicer that I've been doing that for a few years on os 2 already anyway.

your dealer of record can tell you if there's a license either applied or built-in on their side (it'll say licensed controller for a new enough device in their customer information, or show a license if you have one).

On 6/11/2019 at 7:49 AM, daerai said:

I have a bunch of Sonos zone players

A likely cause.

14 hours ago, Topfox said:

Although unsupported..my whole network is Ubiquiti and I have zero issues.

I believe they're still in talks on it. There's a known issue there, though I'm not privy to the details as such. But it's not something commonly seen.

Issue with using black-listed devices is that support will only help you so far as a dealer, because if there's a strong indication it's a network issue and you are using network devices known to cause issues.......

It's a bit or a rotten situation, as ubqt has some pretty solid stuff at some pretty solid prices.

chowmainsoft.com is the current website, but he was referencing to android boxes. MAG uses linux. I know of no drivers for them, and would be surprised if there's anything other than IR

On 5/19/2019 at 11:13 AM, JFan84 said:

is it OK to user the customers ISP provided wireless router

Simply put, no.

Oh in some cases the ISP router may work, especially in smaller systems.

But those are the exceptions.

5 hours ago, thegizzard said:

Is a license still needed for the PC and Mobile Apps?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Straight forward question, answer not so much so.

Yes, you still need a 'license' ascribed to your system to use the apps.

That said, HC800/HC250 controllers at one point started getting that license built-in, so registering any of the ones that had it will automatically add a license to your account (as long as that controller stays registered.

Controller that had that  added end their model number as -bl1

EA controllers all have it.

If you have an OLDER controller however, you may still need to add a license. Here's the catch though, they are no longer for sale, though a dealer CAN talk to his/her rep to obtain one if needed.

Note that this change is by now years old, but you could technically be running an OS3 system on an HC800 without a license.

Media - broadcast - cable or sat. That's where you add channels and icons. This is not something the system loads automatically. Dealers can create xml files to load, or you can do it manually (and pick and choose what channels you want fast access too)