Control4 X4

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

probably will move away from zigbee altogether after 4.0.0, thus the need for new switches???

Considering the statement implies gen3 devices will work just fine, that seems a stretch.

[pdapice]

I wonder if this is going to be the new thing, OS updates that require sunsetting of older hardware forcing customers into the latest and greatest tech. Apple did this a while back but then loosened the restrictions in later years.

I am also concerned about the "DIY" segment that relies on a hacked Composer Pro to maintain their own systems. I know most dealers would probably be ok with that but i think that many of the DIYers would abandon C4 if that comes to be

[msgreenf]

11 minutes ago, pdapice said:

am also concerned about the "DIY" segment that relies on a hacked Composer Pro to maintain their own systems. I know most dealers would probably be ok with that but i think that many of the DIYers would abandon C4 if that comes to be

Pretty sure that's the goal of c4 too. They don't want folks hacking things 

[pdapice]

7 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Pretty sure that's the goal of c4 too. They don't want folks hacking things 

I think that they could easily have tightened security up over the years and locked everyone out. The DIY segment probably has lots of people who still hire dealers and buy equipment so I think it's still a valid revenue stream for them.
For at least the last decade it has been pretty trivial to hack composer Pro and I don't doubt that c4 has know about it and did little to combat it

[ekohn00]

50 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Considering the statement implies gen3 devices will work just fine, that seems a stretch.

Probably depends on the chipsets in the device. Have no idea if their the same, would assume they’re not.

[zaphod]

11 minutes ago, pdapice said:

For at least the last decade it has been pretty trivial to hack composer Pro and I don't doubt that c4 has know about it and did little to combat it

Under OS 1.x there was very little security.  It got harder to hack under 2.X but became much simpler under 3.X.  And there is an active online community on Discord.

A friend told me all this.  

[Popolou]

23 hours ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

X4 (4.1.0)

• Continued Support
  • Core Controller + Core-OSD
  • EA Controller
  • CA Controller
  • T4 Touchscreen
• No Support (Must be replaced/removed from project to upgrade)
  • EA-OSD with OS 3 UI
  • T3 Touch Screen with OS 3 UI
  • Gen 1 & 2 lighting devices (LDZ, LSZ, DIM1, KP6, etc)

Sorry, am slightly confused by this and not sure what this means. Is it that all them EA1's sitting behind TV's will not be updated beyond v4.0 OR that if they are still running v3 they must be updated to v4.0 before the project can go on to v4.1 and up?

 

1 hour ago, pdapice said:

For at least the last decade it has been pretty trivial to hack composer Pro and I don't doubt that c4 has know about it and did little to combat it

No hard numbers but i suspect that that particular user is a subset of a subset of users, representing such a minute fraction of the user base that Snap isn't going to expend its resources bothering about IMHO.

[South Africa C4 user]

1 hour ago, Popolou said:

Sorry, am slightly confused by this and not sure what this means. Is it that all them EA1's sitting behind TV's will not be updated beyond v4.0 OR that if they are still running v3 they must be updated to v4.0 before the project can go on to v4.1 and up?

My understanding is that this means that EA controllers can be used in OS4.0 with an OS3 on screen display.

However, in OS4.1 and beyond they can still be used but with no on screen display whatsoever…

For me, this is the biggest disappointment on OS4 as lots of people (myself included) have loads of EA1s behind TVs and some of us have done the HC250 upgrade to EA1 and now need to upgrade to Core1 just for the OSD…

It also raises the question of when will the Core1 be replaced by an X1 and should we be waiting to upgrade…

[Popolou]

Precisely, and the requirement to "remove from project" is equally alarming if there is a hard restriction preventing updates beyond v4.1.0 for the CA-10 (say) whilst any of them (EA1s) remain in the project.

Something doesn't square here.

[msgreenf]

Just now, Popolou said:

Precisely, and the requirement to "remove from project" is equally alarming if there is a hard restriction preventing updates beyond v4.1.0 for the CA-10 (say) whilst any of them remain in the project.

Something doesn't square here.

No one has shared any eol date for the ca10

[Popolou]

Just now, msgreenf said:

No one has shared any eol date for the ca10

Meant the EA1's. I should clarify that.

[Time2Jet]

No one has shared any eol date for the ca10

Agreed. And I’ll add my .02. Considering the CA-10 is simply horsepower (no Ryff Audio I/O, no Relays/Contact/232, no zigbee), I cannot see a reason to EOL it with any of the forthcoming X4 changes. A lot of larger projects rely on its extra processing, so I cannot see it being EOL simply for the sake of upselling a project. The only reason I see for EOL of T4 touchpanels anytime soon, would be to upgrade the mics for voice control. After some initial bugs, I find them to be crazy stable.


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[Topspin14m]

Agreed. And I’ll add my .02. Considering the CA-10 is simply horsepower (no Ryff Audio I/O, no Relays/Contact/232, no zigbee), I cannot see a reason to EOL it with any of the forthcoming X4 changes. A lot of larger projects rely on its extra processing, so I cannot see it being EOL simply for the sake of upselling a project. The only reason I see for EOL of T4 touchpanels anytime soon, would be to upgrade the mics for voice control. After some initial bugs, I find them to be crazy stable.


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Unlike the EA series, they still sell the CA-10, so no way it’s anywhere close to EOL.


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[Alt]

FYI, They still sell the EA1 v2 and EA1 v2 POE.

[IBZICON]

7 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

Shit…..  forgot about the garage.

I just went through this moving from a HC-800 to Cores, as the Card Access is not compatible.  Went with Tailwimd and couldn’t be happier, especially with the Bluetooth GPS add on as a iPhone user.  Works like a charm as zero issues with multiple cars and multiple garage doors. 

[RAV]

My understanding as a dealer....

The core units are designed around an off the shelf, standardized size/feature set, socketed cpu chip. So they don't need to replace the design because of chip availability like what happened during Covid. So I wouldn't expect to see Core model change for quite some time, a v2 maybe for a chip change, but the 'housing' should be solid for some time to come. And as the 'housing' has changed much other than a port here or there for several generations, should be pretty set.

[IBZICON]

5 hours ago, pdapice said:

I think that they could easily have tightened security up over the years and locked everyone out. The DIY segment probably has lots of people who still hire dealers and buy equipment so I think it's still a valid revenue stream for them.
For at least the last decade it has been pretty trivial to hack composer Pro and I don't doubt that c4 has know about it and did little to combat it

It would mean going to web https login, similar to how new controllers have to be registered online via OvrC.  

4 hours ago, zaphod said:

Under OS 1.x there was very little security.  It got harder to hack under 2.X but became much simpler under 3.X.  And there is an active online community on Discord.

A friend told me all this.  

Gary, are you already working on the X4 tool under the NDA?
 

Unless Control 4 goes to a similar Secure Enclave like Apple that somehow future operating systems such as X4 are looked down, the underground DYI community will exist.  It will be only a matter of time before X4 is hacked for the DYI community.  As @RAV mentioned, the Core chips are ‘off the shelf’—highly doubt  that ADI/Snap has the budget to design and manufacture custom chips. 

[pdapice]

1 minute ago, IBZICON said:

It would mean going to web https login, similar to how new controllers have to be registered online via OvrC.  

Gary, are you already working on the X4 tool under the NDA?
 

Unless Control 4 goes to a similar Secure Enclave like Apple that somehow future operating systems such as X4 are looked down, the underground DYI community will exist.  It will be only a matter of time before X4 is hacked for the DYI community.  As @RAV mentioned, the Core chips are ‘off the shelf’—highly doubt  that ADI/Snap has the budget to design and manufacture custom chips. 

well, i might agree with that, however Savant uses off the shelf Mac minis and i don't think they have a DIY community.  I think URC and RTI are about the same. 

[zaphod]

1 hour ago, IBZICON said:

It would mean going to web https login, similar to how new controllers have to be registered online via OvrC.  

Gary, are you already working on the X4 tool under the NDA?
 

FYI - I am not Gary, did you mean the Garry who wrote the Jailbreak?  Is he in this thread?

[ekohn00]

2 hours ago, IBZICON said:

It would mean going to web https login, similar to how new controllers have to be registered online via OvrC.  

Gary, are you already working on the X4 tool under the NDA?
 

Unless Control 4 goes to a similar Secure Enclave like Apple that somehow future operating systems such as X4 are looked down, the underground DYI community will exist.  It will be only a matter of time before X4 is hacked for the DYI community.  As @RAV mentioned, the Core chips are ‘off the shelf’—highly doubt  that ADI/Snap has the budget to design and manufacture custom chips. 

If I read things correctly, an online account for Connect will now be required. This could make a DIY environment virtually impossible for those people.

[IBZICON]

16 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

If I read things correctly, an online account for Connect will now be required. This could make a DIY environment virtually impossible for those people.

Connect will be required for X4.  There are many variants of the DIY community—don’t think this will be impossible also considering enhanced HomeKit. It 

 

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

FYI - I am not Gary, did you mean the Garry who wrote the Jailbreak?  Is he in this thread?

Sorry, meant Garry.  As you mentioned Discord

[zaphod]

7 minutes ago, IBZICON said:

Connect will be required for X4.  There are many variants of the DIY community—don’t think this will be impossible also considering enhanced HomeKit. It

Some members of the DIY community may not mind paying fees and working with dealers at times, but they may want the flexibility to also be able to do things that you can only do with Composer Pro. Don't assume that they are trying to "steal" C4, they may want more control over their system than C4 allows with typical end users.

[msgreenf]

Talk of hacking and jailbreaking will cause the thread to be locked 

[eggzlot]

13 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

My understanding is that this means that EA controllers can be used in OS4.0 with an OS3 on screen display.

However, in OS4.1 and beyond they can still be used but with no on screen display whatsoever…

For me, this is the biggest disappointment on OS4 as lots of people (myself included) have loads of EA1s behind TVs and some of us have done the HC250 upgrade to EA1 and now need to upgrade to Core1 just for the OSD…

It also raises the question of when will the Core1 be replaced by an X1 and should we be waiting to upgrade…

How often is OSD used?  When we got our c4 demo a decade ago it was a wow factor.  After automating tons of routines, having remote controls, touchscreens, voice control and mobile apps on phones, how often do you sit down and pop on the OSD to do anything?

it’s great for marketing and “wow factor” but in day to day usage it gets lost.  The remote can do everything so why use the remote to surf the OSD? 
 

Only benefit I see is a guest room so they can change hvac or something in the area without the mobile app (my tstats are in the basement w hardwired wall sensors doing the readings)

[South Africa C4 user]

8 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

How often is OSD used?  When we got our c4 demo a decade ago it was a wow factor.  After automating tons of routines, having remote controls, touchscreens, voice control and mobile apps on phones, how often do you sit down and pop on the OSD to do anything?

it’s great for marketing and “wow factor” but in day to day usage it gets lost.  The remote can do everything so why use the remote to surf the OSD? 
 

Only benefit I see is a guest room so they can change hvac or something in the area without the mobile app (my tstats are in the basement w hardwired wall sensors doing the readings)

Mine is used in guest rooms and General TV rooms (never on our bedroom TV).  Guests like the old red button on the remote and I have a keypad button which says watch and I tend to have that programmed to turn on the TV, turn off the lights and go to the watch screen on the OSD.  Guests tend to find that an easier way to choose movies, go to satellite or go to Apple TV than using the watch button.