Control4 X4

[Gary Leeds UK]

9 minutes ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

The beta mentioned for October is for the beta dealers that are always testing the latest changes under NDA. However, we are introducing a new phase of testing with Early Access prior to launch that customer is able to join, but the decision is up to your dealer since they are servicing & supporting the customer's system. Early Access for X4 is targeted for early Q1 2025.

Good luck with testing 

[Darin, PM C4 CX Platform]

15 minutes ago, GregCAMS said:

I just got the following e-mail and wanted to see if anyone else did?  Wasn't sure if it was spam as there was not a grammar check to say they want contribution for a feedback panel in 'July' on an e-mail from the person at the bottom signature this morning

This is a real email from our UX Research Analyst. Thanks for letting me know of the error though I'm guessing she just missed the July reference in the first paragraph since this isn't the first session, I'll let her know so she can correct that going forward. 

[Cyknight]

17 minutes ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

This is a real email from our UX Research Analyst. Thanks for letting me know of the error though I'm guessing she just missed the July reference in the first paragraph since this isn't the first session, I'll let her know so she can correct that going forward. 

First piece of feedback: say the proper month

[GregCAMS]

36 minutes ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

This is a real email from our UX Research Analyst. Thanks for letting me know of the error though I'm guessing she just missed the July reference in the first paragraph since this isn't the first session, I'll let her know so she can correct that going forward. 

thanks - was about to delete for SPAM

[ekohn00]

2 hours ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

Around the launch of X4 there will be equipment upgrade promotions for dealers to offer, but details are still being worked out so nothing exact I can share at this time.

if it helps, upgrading to core's at reduce costs are nice. But the discount to replace all the old version 1` switches plus labor is the big big problem!!!!

 

[msgreenf]

14 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

if it helps, upgrading to core's at reduce costs are nice. But the discount to replace all the old version 1` switches plus labor is the big big problem!!!!

 

Just want to make sure you really have Gen1 lighting? Gen 1 lighting hasn't shipped in over 15 years, started as Embernet and was around in OS 1 days....

[IBZICON]

2 hours ago, Darin, PM C4 CX Platform said:

The beta mentioned for October is for the beta dealers that are always testing the latest changes under NDA. However, we are introducing a new phase of testing with Early Access prior to launch that customer is able to join, but the decision is up to your dealer since they are servicing & supporting the customer's system. Early Access for X4 is targeted for early Q1 2025.

Based on this timeline X4 should be RC status closer to the end of Q1 2025 (March 2025).  I don’t like to compare Apples to oranges (C4), but Apple has a ‘open’ beta testing period after WWDC which beta is intended for app developers and end users which take the risks, and the blogs give customers insight to future features during the beta testing.   How many dealers are involved in a NDA testing process, must be a very small sample size with limited feedback considering a majority of their day is spent in the office/field, as I highly doubt a NDA would permit a public facing showroom to be running a beta X4 on a demo controller.  From a customer perspective this is very frustrating as there will be no details of what is forth coming with the X4 OS, as I know that this is a dealer supported platform, but you have to remember that the end customer is spending tens of thousands of dollars and upgrading very expensive equipment every 5-10 years. 
 

Thank you for your insight. 

[ekohn00]

9 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Just want to make sure you really have Gen1 lighting? Gen 1 lighting hasn't shipped in over 15 years, started as Embernet and was around in OS 1 days....

Probably 2....

• LDZ, LSZ, DIM1, KP6, etc are all G1/G2

Yes my system started 15 years ago....... and many many upgrades later, it sounds like I'd be starting from scratch if I replaced all meh LDZs and KPs and TP3s and EAs.......  ugh. Sounds like I can skip the EA upgrades if I don't do OSD. But ugh anyway.

[msgreenf]

Just now, ekohn00 said:

Probably 2....

• LDZ, LSZ, DIM1, KP6, etc are all G1/G2

Yes my system started 15 years ago....... and many many upgrades later, it sounds like I'd be starting from scratch if I replaced all meh LDZs and KPs and TP3s and EAs.......  ugh. Sounds like I can skip the EA upgrades if I don't do OSD. But ugh anyway.

I think they are probably gen 2

[ekohn00]

1 minute ago, msgreenf said:

I think they are probably gen 2

I said probably 2....but does it matter? same problem.

[msgreenf]

Just now, ekohn00 said:

I said probably 2....but does it matter? same problem.

In this case, no

[IBZICON]

On 9/9/2024 at 11:12 AM, DawnGordon said:

OS4 was already taken, so they had to go with X4.

Reminds me of the BMW X4 which will not live on for a future generation. X also reminds me of Xfinity, which brings positive vibes.  Could have chosen a better nomenclature, but I wasn’t invited to the focus group. 

[IBZICON]

14 hours ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Totally agree about Apple are not interested in ADI/SNAP

However they will be interested in a Black box that lets your AV integrate into HomeKit and works with Siri

Lets wait and see 

Apple already has a black box and it’s called Apple TV.  Apple acquires companies for future product patents are needed for development.  I see X4 as opening up the Control 4 platform to new customers to drive organic growth, who already have a lot of HomeKit products. 

[RAV]

26 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Just want to make sure you really have Gen1 lighting? Gen 1 lighting hasn't shipped in over 15 years, started as Embernet and was around in OS 1 days....

Aren't Gen 1 and Gen 2 the same physically once Gen 1 is converted to Zigbee?
Isn't it just what protocol they shipped with, or was there an actual chip or something changed for Gen 2 Zigbee? or something in the way they reset or something?
(Started in Gen 2 days)

[msgreenf]

99% sure Gen 2 shipped as Embernet but I honestly can't fully remember that far back...

[Cyknight]

Gen 2 dimmers/switches shipped with replaceable fronts (true Gen1 have brass/copper clips holding in the fronts for dimmers, switches and 2 buttons, these aren't replaceable - well, you could if you were super careful - but it wasn't an actual feature) and an improved antennae wind in the device, don't think it was a chip change though I can't be 100% sre. It was initially embernet like gen 1 - later on the SKU was changed to C4-DIMM vs LDZ (for dimmer) etc, on the box at least. Those came shipped ZPro, but were physically the same device.

 

Note, the keypads were always replaceable, and I'm not even certain they got an antennae upgrade as they used to have a far better reach than dimmers and switches.

 

The USER side of Gen1 and Gen2 (both embernet and zpro) look identical by the way: you wouldn't know the difference looking at it installed.

 

The sticker on the back of the device is the easiest 'tell': LDZ or LDS (or whatever) -101 is gen1, -102 is gen2 shipping embernet C4 DIMM SWTC (or whatever) are Gen2 shipped with ZPro.

Note that they all use the exact same driver in the system, and later Gen2 still UUIDs as LDZ-102 etc

 

Man I may have been doing this for far too long.

[Cooper]

Would the X4 update also kill other "obsolete" devices like the SR-250, and the old amplifiers?

 

[msgreenf]

8 minutes ago, Cooper said:

Would the X4 update also kill other "obsolete" devices like the SR-250, and the old amplifiers?

 

No

[Cyknight]

As far as has been explained at this point, no remotes stop working, and amplifiers, matrix switches and other devices currently supported in OS3 will work in X4 at least initially.

My only 'concern' devices (beyond those obviously stated as being 'out' at this point would be perhaps some old zigbee devices such as card access sensors/relays.

[zaphod]

So then I guess that means that the older remotes can have their Zigbee radios updated to Zigbee3, but the Gen1 dimmers and keypads can't?

[Cyknight]

50 minutes ago, zaphod said:

So then I guess that means that the older remotes can have their Zigbee radios updated to Zigbee3, but the Gen1 dimmers and keypads can't?

NOTHING has been said concerning

a) Remotes in general past x4.0.0 - they are conspicuously absent from being mentioned along with other pre-existing ZigBee devices, including but not limited to Card Access, Nyce and Axxess devices, locks, blinds and whatever else might be on that list.

b) What the actual reason is for lights no longer working past x4.0.0. It could also have to do with whatever new lighting interface/scenes/whatever they're planning.

 

I get that the move to ZigBee 3 is an obvious thing to point out as a potential reason - but there are other potential reasons. Remember that older style lights were ALREADY limited in OS3 (limited amount of scenes they can be in, inability to doing multiple actions with them in scenes)

[ekohn00]

13 hours ago, Cyknight said:

As far as has been explained at this point, no remotes stop working, and amplifiers, matrix switches and other devices currently supported in OS3 will work in X4 at least initially.

My only 'concern' devices (beyond those obviously stated as being 'out' at this point would be perhaps some old zigbee devices such as card access sensors/relays.

Shit…..  forgot about the garage.

[ekohn00]

12 hours ago, Cyknight said:

 

 

I get that the move to ZigBee 3 is an obvious thing to point out as a potential reason - but there are other potential reasons. Remember that older style lights were ALREADY limited in OS3 (limited amount of scenes they can be in, inability to doing multiple actions with them in scenes)

Based on all that I’ve been reading, it sounds like with X4 you can’t run both zigbee and zigbee 3, and probably will move away from zigbee altogether after 4.0.0, thus the need for new switches???

hopefully someone get creative and find a way to keep version 2 switches in the system!

[ChzBurger]

There's something more complex going on than just Zigbee changes. The public announcement didn't even say anything about Zigbee. The Zigbee 3.0 standard provides for backward device compatibility. In the non-C4 world that has meant a fairly easy transition to the 3.0 standard for most devices that adhere to the Zigbee specs and do not use custom clusters. One thing that has been required in the non-C4 world is a new Zigbee controller. I don't know anything about C4's Zigbee chips, but I imagine getting EA series up to 3.0 standards is a challenge.

[WhyPhy]

19 hours ago, Cyknight said:

HomeKit requires a security chip

Apple security chips are no longer required. Apple now allows fully software-based integrations. The security and implementation requirements are still high compared to other solutions.