Control4 X4

[Cyknight]

I'm not buying T3 are not powerfull enough. My guess is that the touch screens aren't sensitive enough to handle the new interface OR have a too low rez.

[Topspin14m]

I'm not buying T3 are not powerfull enough. My guess is that the touch screens aren't sensitive enough to handle the new interface OR have a too low rez.

Kind of the cruddy part of many of these issues is that the lesson is sometimes don’t buy the C4 product even if you have C4-get something made by someone else. I.e. those people with iPads on their walls have no problem. But it is what it is. I agree they are probably too low res for this to work well.

Would be good if they could offer some kind of discount program to help out people who were loyal and bought their hardware.


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[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Topspin14m said:

If folks had installed Lutron, they wouldn’t have this problem

You assume Lutron will stay supported in X4, let alone will be compatible with whatever new features are in X4 (well).

In the end this is STILL a choice to upgrade at least for the time being, likely at least for 10 years. Your lights don't just stop working, your system just can't updated and include them.

Nothing stops anyone from getting a CA1 and run the lighting as a separate system. Would even have free remote access if forced to Connect....

 

[Cyknight]

2 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

 I.e. those people with iPads on their walls have no problem.


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I don't fully agree with that to be honest. An iPad plus nice mount still costs nearly the same, works slower and it'll have it battery blow up, stops getting security updates and so on. Older ipads don't support the apps anymore either. You're still looking to replace them at one point or another.

 

[Cyknight]

5 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

Would be good if they could offer some kind of discount program to help out people who were loyal and bought their hardware.

Word is that there will be a transition/upgrade program, though no clue what that will entail.

[Topspin14m]

You assume Lutron will stay supported in X4, let alone will be compatible with whatever new features are in X4 (well).
In the end this is STILL a choice to upgrade at least for the time being, likely at least for 10 years. Your lights don't just stop working, your system just can't updated and include them.
Nothing stops anyone from getting a CA1 and run the lighting as a separate system. Would even have free remote access if forced to Connect....
 

Lutron will still be supported because killing Lutron support would effectively end C4. Lutron is in too many high end homes. Even amongst C4 users, I bet C4 lighting is more niche. Additionally, it’s getting easier and easier to switch automation providers on the cheap. It would cost me far less to switch to Josh.ai than to swap all my C4 controllers. But this interface upgrade is being done to stop people from wanting to do that.


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[Cyknight]

13 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

Even amongst C4 users, I bet C4 lighting is more niche.

I expect fully you'd lost that bet.

We do more than just C4 systems (and we do many 6 digit installs in 7-8 digit houses) and I have more C4 lighting systems out there than Lutron lighting by something like a multiple of 100.  To be clear that includes systems other than C4 using Lutron. Heck I see more Vantage than Lutron. I would expect in Europe, you'd see KNX used with a variety of luxury brands.

Within C4, the MAJORITY includes lighting for us.

 

I'm sure it varies by market, region - even dealer. And I'm certainly not saying there aren't a lot of Lutron installs out there - but you're grasping at things there.

 

 

[Cyknight]

11 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

Lutron will still be supported because killing Lutron support would effectively end C4.

That is simply complete and utter non-sense.

[Topspin14m]

I expect fully you'd lost that bet.
We do more than just C4 systems (and we do many 6 digit installs in 7-8 digit houses) and I have more C4 lighting systems out there than Lutron lighting by something like a multiple of 100.  To be clear that includes systems other than C4 using Lutron. Heck I see more Vantage than Lutron. I would expect in Europe, you'd see KNX used with a variety of luxury brands.
Within C4, the MAJORITY includes lighting for us.
 
I'm sure it varies by market, region - even dealer.
 
 

You must be a good salesperson. Where I live (a major US city) all my neighbors have home automation systems. All use Lutron. None of us coordinated! Plus, when I was doing my home search I went to maybe 30 places. Never saw C4 switches and I looked.

But where I am most of the C4 guys sell Lutron too and designers press Lutron, including Ketra.


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[Cyknight]

1 minute ago, Topspin14m said:

You must be a good salesperson.

I'm not in sales at all. I program systems - C4, Lutron and others.

 

One could argue the same for your area's C4 dealers, they must sell Lutron well, because apparently they're making a mint extra selling it alongside C4 at better margins.

 

To be clear, nothing against Lutron in any way: the product is solid - but you're taking a very local perspective and projecting it on a market many times larger and more complex and yes, of course my perspective has the same flaw - but that is sort of the point.

 

Oh and don't start with designers pushing Lutron. They have one very good reason to do so - and it's nothing more than getting a cut. May as well be talking about products recommended by HGTV hosts.

[Topspin14m]

I'm not in sales at all. I program systems - C4, Lutron and others.
 
One could argue the same for your area's C4 dealers, they must sell Lutron well, because apparently they're making a mint extra selling it alongside C4 at better margins.
 
To be clear, nothing against Lutron in any way: the product is solid - but you're taking a very local perspective and projecting it on a market many times larger and more complex and yes, of course my perspective has the same flaw - but that is sort of the point.
 
Oh and don't start with designers pushing Lutron. They have one very good reason to do so - and it's nothing more than getting a cut. May as well be talking about products recommended by HGTV hosts.

I have no doubt they all take cuts and the cuts are large and everyone makes their $$. But, in my market, people will almost always pay significantly more for nicer looking switches. And that’s what Lutron is selling. C4 is starting to catch up but Lutron’s design is still the industry standard.


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[Cyknight]

11 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

None of us coordinated!

Just as as side note: of course you didn't, but your designer studios sure did

[RAV]

So here's an opportunity for a developer to write a driver to bridge two projects in a single house, one running just CA/EA with Gen 2 lighting, and the other the full system.
If you've got a dozen then upgrade, so be it, if you've got 50 devices, lets bridge.

(Surely Control4 could help said developer with any protocol/security issues, and still be hey, it's not supported it's not our driver)

And frankly, if it came down to just level, keypads got to go, no double/tripple tap etc, I think many would be willing.

[Topspin14m]

Just as as side note: of course you didn't, but your designer studios sure did

I didn’t even like paying for a designer period. Let alone for Lutron. But I’m not in charge of those decisions in my house. I get say over what’s in the server closet-not much else.


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[Cyknight]

4 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

Lutron’s design is still the industry standard.

Standard as in basic, sure.

You're not seriously saying Lutron's lighting devices are 'designer' look right? MAYBE a bit with the Ketro but....

[Cyknight]

2 minutes ago, RAV said:

So here's an opportunity for a developer to write a driver to bridge two projects in a single house, one running just CA/EA with Gen 2 lighting, and the other the full system.
If you've got a dozen then upgrade, so be it, if you've got 50 devices, lets bridge.

Wouldn't that just be HTTP

[Topspin14m]

Standard as in basic, sure.
You're not seriously saying Lutron's lighting devices are 'designer' look right?

Yup. I would simply point to the books of switch designs and colors they offer. I’m not sure what your definition of designer is though.


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[Cyknight]

1 minute ago, Topspin14m said:

Yup. I would simply point to the books of switch designs and colors they offer.


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Like I already added to my post earlier, maybe a bit with Ketro, but my word you have a world of TRUE designer switches and dimmers to explore.

Anyway, we're going waaaaaay of topic here.

[msgreenf]

Back on topic about X4 or the thread will be locked. Please feel free to start a new thread about lutron lighting versus c4 lighting

[Tokead]

Word is that there will be a transition/upgrade program, though no clue what that will entail.

I’ve had my system for 14 years and I’m on my 3rd controller (currently EA’s) and it’s not all bells and whistles, but I do have a significant number of switches

It’s one thing to upgrade controllers, but if I have to replace and update switches, which are gen 2, this will be the end of my C4 upgrades. I can’t justify to my wife or self to spend 000’s on them. I was confident that they were integral enough to be supported.


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[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, Tokead said:

they were integral enough to be supported.

 

To be very clear, I'm not thrilled about it either. I understand very well that these pieces are old, were half experimental when they first came out to begin with and have had a long good life.

As such I'm not overly loudly bemoaning their end of life, but I'm not supportive of the decision.

[South Africa C4 user]

5 hours ago, RAV said:

So here's an opportunity for a developer to write a driver to bridge two projects in a single house, one running just CA/EA with Gen 2 lighting, and the other the full system.
If you've got a dozen then upgrade, so be it, if you've got 50 devices, lets bridge.

(Surely Control4 could help said developer with any protocol/security issues, and still be hey, it's not supported it's not our driver)

And frankly, if it came down to just level, keypads got to go, no double/tripple tap etc, I think many would be willing.

While I’ve not used it… there is already such a driver available on Driver Central.

https://drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/domaudeo-multisystem-driver-airbnb-country-home-solution/
 

Assuming this driver works well, the real question is will it work between an OS3 and an X4 system… given the probable demand, I am sure that the developers will make sure it does.

 

In summary, it looks to me (based on the very limited information available at present) that in all likelihood, one will be able to keep 10+ year old lighting working and continue with system updates for the price of a Core1 + a driver + a little setup.  Depending on the number of switches / dimmers… this may be worth it.  Could even do this with a second hand EA1 (maybe even an HC250 - but I suspect that that may be wishful thinking!j).

[IBZICON]

Is there video available that shows in depth of the upcoming X4 os? Seemed that the Snap keynote was very brief on this topic.  I’m spoiled with Apple WWD keynote that dive into the upcoming OS updates and betas are released within days to the developers that publish the features —unlike Snap which teases a product for 6 months, as 2025 Q1 ends March 2025 and is 6 months away. 

What is the big deal with gen 1 & 2 lighting being held on 4.0?  Snap hasn’t even announced what will be available 4.x.  Too premature to be complaining for an unknown.  
 

Edit:

I found this: 

and this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_maT8duN3F/?igsh=czl5bDY2aG9wcWJu

There is a QR code which links to a jot form at the end of the 1st video for us to give “feedback”.  

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, IBZICON said:

Is there video available that shows in depth of the upcoming X4 os? Seemed that the Snap keynote was very brief on this topic.  I’m spoiled with Apple WWD keynote that dive into the upcoming OS updates and betas are released within days to the developers that publish the features —unlike Snap which teases a product for 6 months, as 2025 Q1 ends March 2025 and is 6 months away. 

What is the big deal with gen 1 & 2 lighting being held on 4.0?  Snap hasn’t even announced what will be available 4.x.  Too premature to be complaining for an unknown.  
 

Edit:

I found this: 

and this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_maT8duN3F/?igsh=czl5bDY2aG9wcWJu

There is a QR code which links to a jot form at the end of the 1st video for us to give “feedback”.  

Several brands at Cedia talk about and beta demo products that take years if at all to develop. It for industry peers to understand what’s coming. This isnt a consumer trade show or a release keynote. 

[GregCAMS]

would be more impressed if they actually had a live demonstration at this point than a slide deck with thumbnails.