msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Here is my opinion on why old lighting isn't being supported. This is the last post I am going to make about this. Control4 has publicly said they are transitioning off ZB pro to Zigbee 3. They have also said publicly that you can't run Zigbee 3 and Zigbpro on the same controller. They need to run on separate meshes on separate hardware. My GUESS is that X4.0 is going to be the last OS version to support Zigbee pro. They don't want to carry the tech debt of supporting both stacks. They likely have done the math on customer impact vs cost and while it may not feel that way to some parties, made the best decision that the best solution was to stop supporting ZBP. They have also said that upgrade programs will be available. I suspect they will target Gen 1 /2 lighting with discounts. I don't expect details to come out until Q1 2025. Does this suck for some people? 100%. Spending money on something that is seemingly working is never fun. But you don't have to. Control4 has also said OS 3 will continue to be supported. Once OS 4 comes out, you can decide if you want to go to x4.0 and be "stuck" if you don't upgrade or stay on the 3.x path. I totally again understand everyones perspectives that this impacts; but business decisions have to be made to manage the cost of support and complexity of it. dstefek16, therockhr, J to the D and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinom Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 I have a Kwikset Obsidian lock from C4 that uses Zigbee. Will this be supported on OS4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popolou Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 23 hours ago, Time2Jet said: Quite possible the deadest horse in C4Forums history. I feel like the Control4 platform has always squeezed every last drop of juice from the lemon (ie added as many features as the hardware could support). Unfortunately, to add all of these remarkable new X4 lfeatures as a package will require certain hardware specifications simply “TO MAKE IT WORK”. Not sure where the disconnect is. No one is stopping lighting from working in anyone’s home. You have a choice. Stay at 3.xx or go to X4. Write a check or don’t. You still have a functioning system that is today as good or better than anything out there. Agreed, gone way OT, borders on trolling now and far more a candidate for closing. There is a concerning element of this v3 vs v4 discussion that we've seen time and again but which is easily forgotten. Even if a system remains on v3, there will be a point (if not in the near future) when third-party devs will eventually be forced to update their drivers to accommodate v4 such that retaining compatibility may break something, hampers future improvements or may simply find it uneconomical to support two version chains. It is irritating when you start to lose functionality due to no fault of your own but it is inevitable and is of no real comfort to know that you can simply remain on v3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Was talking to one of my installers last night. Would it be possible to have a new OS4 controller as the main unit and have the older EA5 or whatever it is as a secondary controller that would be running OS3 and have the older controller manage the Zigbee pro mesh and the newer controller managing the other? Right now I have a CA1 because my EA5 is maxxed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 24 minutes ago, Viperman said: Was talking to one of my installers last night. Would it be possible to have a new OS4 controller as the main unit and have the older EA5 or whatever it is as a secondary controller that would be running OS3 and have the older controller manage the Zigbee pro mesh and the newer controller managing the other? Right now I have a CA1 because my EA5 is maxxed out. No msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 15 hours ago, dinom said: I have a Kwikset Obsidian lock from C4 that uses Zigbee. Will this be supported on OS4? I have a "gut feeling" that most if not all Zigbee Pro devices will not update to Zigbee 3.0 (ie.) Zigbee remotes SR250/260, door locks, motion sensors etc. Trust me I'm not excited about this but we will have to wait and see. I'm just hoping that Gen3 Lighting gets fully updated to Zigbee 3.0... Time will tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 This discussion has all been about dimmers. But what about Gen1/2 keypads? Will they still work? What about all other Zigbee Pro devices? Will they also need to be replaced to stay current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDavisNJ Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 are the C4-THERM thermostats impacted by the much-discussed Zigbee issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 24 minutes ago, zaphod said: This discussion has all been about dimmers. But what about Gen1/2 keypads? Will they still work? What about all other Zigbee Pro devices? Will they also need to be replaced to stay current? I think it was posted that it is products with LDZ, LSZ, DIM1, KP6, etc. Also I keep reading that people are saying that you have to stay on OS3 if you have gen1/2 lighting but I believe you can still upgrade to X4 with limited support but can't upgrade to 4.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 2 minutes ago, BDavisNJ said: are the C4-THERM thermostats impacted by the much-discussed Zigbee issue? There has been no mention of any other zigbee pro devices except gen1/2 lighting being EOL. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 38 minutes ago, Alt said: I have a "gut feeling" that most if not all Zigbee Pro devices will not update to Zigbee 3.0 (ie.) Zigbee remotes SR250/260, door locks, motion sensors etc. Trust me I'm not excited about this but we will have to wait and see. I'm just hoping that Gen3 Lighting gets fully updated to Zigbee 3.0... Time will tell! I think that is factually incorrect as the only thing they have announced is the impact to gen 1 and 2 lighting. Please don't assume the worst based on a lack of information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 That is ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Whatever is going to make Gen1/2 lighting incompatible, is not just specifically Zigbee Pro radio related. Or many, many other Zigbee devices would be on the list. (Remotes, relays, sensors, locks ....) Also, note. The original plug in outlet devices of that era are NOT on the list. (Clue? They never made the cut into Advanced Lighting Scenes) So, we'll have to wait and see the why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 On 9/21/2024 at 11:21 AM, eggzlot said: I left android for iPhone like a decade ago because my Samsung or whoever was the manufacturer wouldn’t let me update while all other android phones did. Mine was a top of the line 299 or 399 phone and stopped getting updates in less than 2 years. A lot of the new android phones have 5 or 7 years of guaranteed updates now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 2 hours ago, Andrew luecke said: A lot of the new android phones have 5 or 7 years of guaranteed updates now. I hear ya that it’s less fragmented but a decade later im comfortable and invested in the iOS ecosystem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 6 hours ago, msgreenf said: I think that is factually incorrect as the only thing they have announced is the impact to gen 1 and 2 lighting. Please don't assume the worst based on a lack of information lol until 4.x is released or they provide a list of what actually is supported/upgradable all we can do is make an educated guess. A lot can change between now and then. Like you said it’s not coming out till next year… Also being supported in 4.x and being upgradeable to zigbee 3.0 are two different animals imo 7 hours ago, Alt said: I have a "gut feeling" that most if not all Zigbee Pro devices will not update to Zigbee 3.0 (ie.) Zigbee remotes SR250/260, door locks, motion sensors etc. Trust me I'm not excited about this but we will have to wait and see. I'm just hoping that Gen3 Lighting gets fully updated to Zigbee 3.0... Time will tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 1 hour ago, Alt said: lol until 4.x is released or they provide a list of what actually is supported/upgradable all we can do is make an educated guess. A lot can change between now and then. Like you said it’s not coming out till next year… Also being supported in 4.x and being upgradeable to zigbee 3.0 are two different animals imo …. i mean. 7 hours ago, RAV said: That is ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBZICON Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 There is a X4 feedback panel scheduled for Tuesday, October 8th and Wednesday, October 23rd. The Gen 1/Gen 2 lighting issue and Zigbee 3.0 should be asked. c44me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted Wednesday at 04:20 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:20 PM The incompatibility of older C4 Products in X4 will let me do my lighting either with KNX or DALI, both have been around for decades, still work and will continue to do so. Much more future proof than buying a Gen3 lighting now for 30K and then redoing all of that in 10 years or so when Control4 drops Gen3 lights in X5 when Gen3 has been out for 15 years - thats just not what I want when I put stuff physically into the building material, don't care with changing controllers etc, but that just steers my money elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdapice Posted Wednesday at 04:36 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:36 PM I think the point a lot of people are missing here isn't the age of the products that they are leaving behind, but rather the age of the products that we all bought. Sure the T3 came out in 2015 so it will be "almost" 10 years old by the time that they sunset it, but i bought 8 of them for my home at the end of 2020 and had them integrated just before 2021. so here i am 4 years later, with obsolete panels. I bought them new, from my dealer. no option for the T4 was available at that time. similarly, i purchased my EA5 v2 in May of 2021 and installed it in July. So just over 3 years and it is now going to be old tech. THIS is the problem i have with the upgrade. not that they are sunsetting 10+ year old tech, but rather 3 year old tech. and there was NO indication that the next version of processor would be necessary to utilize the newest OS from C4 just a few years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted Wednesday at 04:37 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:37 PM 15 minutes ago, blub said: The incompatibility of older C4 Products in X4 will let me do my lighting either with KNX or DALI, both have been around for decades, still work and will continue to do so. Fortunately, Control4 provides pretty good compatibility with KNX and (I believe) DALI. Choosing 3rd party lighting is entirely up to you, and it's an understandable reaction for some. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted Wednesday at 06:38 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:38 PM 1 hour ago, RyanE said: Fortunately, Control4 provides pretty good compatibility with KNX and (I believe) DALI. Yep, independent integrator says it will work really well. Considering Control4's current move it is the better choice in the long run. I design the system in a way that I do not rely on control4, so in case the charge like 1000$ for "connect" at some point or decide to leave Europe (I do no see a real effort in Europe) I can change the OS without too much hassel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted Wednesday at 08:41 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 08:41 PM 2 hours ago, blub said: Yep, independent integrator says it will work really well. I don't know that I'd use Control4 lighting in Europe in any case. IMHO, they seem pretty US-centric, even if you can use them in square 'european' module frames. If integrating KNX, be sure and use a KNX Routing Gateway to connect to KNX, not a KNX 'Tunnelling' IP Interface. https://ivoryegg.co.nz/product_guides/connecting-knx-and-control-4-with-ip-routers-best-practice-recommendation-from-ivory-egg Since it sounds like your integrator has done this before, they likely know all about it... RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted Thursday at 06:48 AM Share Posted Thursday at 06:48 AM 9 hours ago, RyanE said: I don't know that I'd use Control4 lighting in Europe in any case. IMHO, they seem pretty US-centric, even if you can use them in square 'european' module frames. Yea C4 lighting is US focused. They tried with the EU square models however they don't integrate well from the looks of it as we have a 50mm and 55mm frame model to match outlets etc and C4 doesn't fit with those frames - these frames are interchangeable between manufacturers. So all C4 would need is wider keys and a trim ring to work with either the 50 or 55mm a, dthen C4 would be compatible with hundred of frames etc - that the "visual part". The other side is technical, the break relatively often when a high load device is plugged in on the same circuit like a vacuum cleaner - they have a tendency to pop And for those caveats they are horrendously expensive with 320€ - fair value would be around 200€ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.