pdapice Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 On 9/20/2024 at 9:21 PM, eggzlot said: I left android for iPhone like a decade ago because my Samsung or whoever was the manufacturer wouldn’t let me update while all other android phones did. Mine was a top of the line 299 or 399 phone and stopped getting updates in less than 2 years. This cracks me up: what "top of the line" android phone costs $299? and instead of ditching the manufacturer that stopped giving you updates (despite ALL of the other android phone manufacturers updating as you said) you went to an entirely different platform? makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Quite possible the deadest horse in C4Forums history. I feel like the Control4 platform has always squeezed every last drop of juice from the lemon (ie added as many features as the hardware could support). Unfortunately, to add all of these remarkable new X4 lfeatures as a package will require certain hardware specifications simply “TO MAKE IT WORK”. Not sure where the disconnect is. No one is stopping lighting from working in anyone’s home. You have a choice. Stay at 3.xx or go to X4. Write a check or don’t. You still have a functioning system that is today as good or better than anything out there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk South Africa C4 user and Topspin14m 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 2 hours ago, pdapice said: This cracks me up: what "top of the line" android phone costs $299? and instead of ditching the manufacturer that stopped giving you updates (despite ALL of the other android phone manufacturers updating as you said) you went to an entirely different platform? makes no sense. This was before my first iPhone. Probably pushing 15 years ago. I believe i got it on 3.0 and it never got past 3.2. At the time it was the carriers flagship phone from Samsung or Motorola I forget. and I changed platforms because I consistently knew the manufacturer owned the OS and was going for an overall better user experience. I’m a few iPhones and iPads later and I have mostly nothing bad to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdapice Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 2 hours ago, eggzlot said: This was before my first iPhone. Probably pushing 15 years ago. I believe i got it on 3.0 and it never got past 3.2. At the time it was the carriers flagship phone from Samsung or Motorola I forget. and I changed platforms because I consistently knew the manufacturer owned the OS and was going for an overall better user experience. I’m a few iPhones and iPads later and I have mostly nothing bad to say. If I remember correctly, 15 years ago, Apple was EOL iphones after 3 versions. you clearly just went for the hype, not for the updateability. My guess is that you have been buying new iphones every few years anyway like everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 On 9/6/2024 at 4:18 PM, Cyknight said: Wouldn't that just be HTTP More sense would be a full-time connection, like a telnet-style protocol. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topspin14m Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 13 minutes ago, pdapice said: If I remember correctly, 15 years ago, Apple was EOL iphones after 3 versions. you clearly just went for the hype, not for the updateability. My guess is that you have been buying new iphones every few years anyway like everyone else Only the iPhone 15 and 16 can fully implement the new AI features, so in some sense, older than 2 year iPhones already are losing support for cutting edge functionality. That said, an iPhone costs ~$1000, which is a significant amount of money but far less than the $15k+ a new lighting system costs, so obviously people expect full support for lighting for a much longer time period. Also, even older iPhones can be sold for significant money (and carriers offer big incentives and finance the cost of new phones) making upgrading much cheaper. Old lighting switches are basically worthless. I don’t think these comparisons make much sense. That said, as others have pointed out, C4 has supported these switches for over 20 years. That’s a pretty lengthy and very reasonable lifespan. And they will continue to work and be supported on older OS versions. It’s disappointing but not unreasonable. Few, if any, electronics companies fully support their products longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 7 hours ago, blub said: Well a car is being used and it degrades over time / has wear and tear and a new car comes with new features etc - lighting turns a light on and off, there there no new features to the function as switch needs to fulfill and a light switch also doesn't degrade over time - so that comparison doesn't show anything besides the point that rich ppl can afford it anyway. The product is a light switch/dimmer and it doesn't get new features, its function on/off/dim are the same, the light doesn't get any brighter... - as features/functions stay the same it should not be a reason to break update compatibility and as other lighting system will be compatible there is 0 reason C4s own system wont be compatible at least via a bridge or a second ZigBee hub running the old version. And for that reason as others have said a light switch will be at the very top of a list for products where I would expect to keep them and not need to upgrade them. I don see a huge cost there, 2nd controller with ZigBee hub and thats it - driver can stay the same on,off,dimm I know C4 needs money to operate and they had 4sight and now mandatory "Connect" to increase revenue but when they now drop light switches which are still working just fine I really have problems to drop 50 or 100k into that Control4 ecosystem - I buy Gen3 lights now, they have been out since 2017? and I can already prepare for new lights Gen4 in 2030 or so? - thats kinda hard to swallow I 100% totally agree with what he is saying. I have over 100 switches and dimmers in my house and they only do on/off/dim. What new features would I gain with this $50,000 upgrade? zaphod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 4 minutes ago, Viperman said: I 100% totally agree with what he is saying. I have over 100 switches and dimmers in my house and they only do on/off/dim. What new features would I gain with this $50,000 upgrade? The new features OF THE OVERALL SYSTEM. Don't want those new features, don't update. Nothing changes. Nothing stops working AT ALL. The disconnect is obvious: those that don't get it just don't WANT to get it. RyanE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, Viperman said: I 100% totally agree with what he is saying. I have over 100 switches and dimmers in my house and they only do on/off/dim. What new features would I gain with this $50,000 upgrade? They dont only do on/off or dim, they talk to a lighting controller, because it’s part of a lighting system thats part of a greater smart home system. That lighting system is not being supported in anything beyond the base version of OS4, which they are still being supported in after 20 YEARS, which is absolutely not the norm especially in the luxury space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 7 hours ago, blub said: I don see a huge cost there Yeah, thanks for confirming that like I said, you're not grasping the cost involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, Cyknight said: Yeah, thanks for confirming that like I said, you're not grasping the cost involved. You don't understand software development, firmware testing qa, support. Etc. There is a lot of cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdapice Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 40 minutes ago, Cyknight said: The new features OF THE OVERALL SYSTEM. Don't want those new features, don't update. Nothing changes. Nothing stops working AT ALL. The disconnect is obvious: those that don't get it just don't WANT to get it. Sure, that is a great short term solution, but long term there is going to be some issues since you will forever be stuck in a 2024 OS and hardware. Now, upgrading to the newer (and supported) OS will require: a controller upgrade, a panel upgrade, and every single switch dimmer and keypad. I think this will eventually cause customers to evaluate other options when the time comes. I decided long ago that lutron was the better bet for lighting when i built out my system as it integrates with literally everything. I miss out on a few cool C4 things like LED colors and double / triple tap, but i feel the trade off was worth it to be able to access my lights from any other platform that i want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Just now, pdapice said: Sure, that is a great short term solution, but long term there is going to be some issues since you will forever be stuck in a 2024 OS and hardware. Now, upgrading to the newer (and supported) OS will require: a controller upgrade, a panel upgrade, and every single switch dimmer and keypad. I think this will eventually cause customers to evaluate other options when the time comes. I decided long ago that lutron was the better bet for lighting when i built out my system as it integrates with literally everything. I miss out on a few cool C4 things like LED colors and double / triple tap, but i feel the trade off was worth it to be able to access my lights from any other platform that i want. Then why are you complaining about a problem that doesn't exist for you? RyanE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdapice Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Just now, msgreenf said: Then why are you complaining about a problem that doesn't exist for you? i was never complaining about the lighting, i was more bothered about having to replace my controller (again) and panels all of which i bought only a couple of years ago. The switch from 4sight is also kind of a bummer. I see a distinct difference in what C4 has become since the merger with Snap and buyout by ADI. I agree that this OS was obviously in the works prior to the ADI buyout, but the decision to offer the latest OS to everyone (to rope you in) and then cut all of them off on the next update clearly was a business decision made by the "new" people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 44 minutes ago, msgreenf said: You don't understand software development, firmware testing qa, support. Etc. There is a lot of cost I understand the cost of software development. And it is BS to not make it backwards compatible. They could EASILY throw a $1 component in there to communicate with old stuff. Sure I get that that the lights connect to a lighting controller. I have configured double tap and triple tap and several switches of which NO ONE uses except for me. I want all of the new features of a new controller, AND I want it to control the old stuff as well. It CAN do both, y'all are just accepting that it won't and you are looking at that $50,000 cost of upgrading light switches as a way to cash in. I get it, I do it in my business, i HOPE that my vendors make stuff not backwards compatible then I will SCREW my customers and blame it on the vendor and the only one that wins is ME. Trust me I get it, and it is BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, Viperman said: They could EASILY throw a $1 component in there to communicate with old stuff. Yes. A $1 component can solve all the problems. If that was the case don't you think they would have? This thread is really silly at this point cdcllc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 17 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Yes. A $1 component can solve all the problems. If that was the case don't you think they would have? This thread is really silly at this point No they wouldn't. They don't sell any more product if they do that. Come on now, you know that. This is a way to milk more money out of existing customers. Please tell me what additional functionality I can possibly get out of my lighting system by spending $50,000 on an upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 3 hours ago, pdapice said: If I remember correctly, 15 years ago, Apple was EOL iphones after 3 versions. you clearly just went for the hype, not for the updateability. My guess is that you have been buying new iphones every few years anyway like everyone else Nope. Just a got the 15 iPhone after I moved up from the X. And this year I replaced an iPad Pro 2 w an M4 iPad The pro 2 still worked but was slow Oh and I’m rocking a 2013 Cyclinder Mac Pro as my personal PC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_4G_LTE and that was the phone. Droid Charge. Got 1 update and that was it. you can stop guessing at my technology now South Africa C4 user 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 4 minutes ago, Viperman said: No they wouldn't. They don't sell any more product if they do that. Come on now, you know that. This is a way to milk more money out of existing customers. Please tell me what additional functionality I can possibly get out of my lighting system by spending $50,000 on an upgrade? I would love to know what expertise told you that this could be solved w a $1 component? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 5 minutes ago, Viperman said: Please tell me what additional functionality I can possibly get out of my lighting system by spending $50,000 on an upgrade maybe wait til x4 with details are released and you will see what features can be done? May be based on UI and communication that isn’t possible with an old chipset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, eggzlot said: maybe wait til x4 with details are released and you will see what features can be done? May be based on UI and communication that isn’t possible with an old chipset Totally agree. There is very little information available as to reasons why yet. This isn't coming out till next year there are going to be more releases of os3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) 8 hours ago, pdapice said: This cracks me up: what "top of the line" android phone costs $299? and instead of ditching the manufacturer that stopped giving you updates (despite ALL of the other android phone manufacturers updating as you said) you went to an entirely different platform? makes no sense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_4G_LTE both released in 2011. One for 5 years of OS updates. One got about a year of updates. I got the droid charge on release date. Was the first 4g phone and was an expensive “flagship” phone. what was supported longer? Edited September 22 by eggzlot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 36 minutes ago, msgreenf said: I would love to know what expertise told you that this could be solved w a $1 component? The old zigbee controller would still communicate with the old devices. That can't cost more than a couple of bucks. They already have the software working. They just have to write it to integrate with everything, not that hard to do, if they so chose to do it. zaphod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdapice Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 28 minutes ago, eggzlot said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_4G_LTE both released in 2011. One for 5 years of OS updates. One got about a year of updates. I got the droid charge on release date. Was the first 4g phone and was an expensive “flagship” phone. what was supported longer? were those the exact phones that you were talking about, or did you just search for the best case / worst case phones so you could try and prove your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, pdapice said: were those the exact phones that you were talking about, or did you just search for the best case / worst case phones so you could try and prove your point? Exact phone. I had the Samsung charge. Showing an iPhone released around the same time. After my experience w the Charge I left Android behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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