Any programming that includes multiple devices always leaves one out on a daily basis, what else can I check or try?

[416to305]

We got C4 several months ago and have had this issue from day one.  I use Philips Hue and have 3 bridges with over 100 lights and have had this for almost 10 years on other HA platforms.  We also use Lutron Serena shades, some Caseta dimmers, and Lutron RA2 for all main lighting.  The issue I'm having is any time I have a program where the action includes multiple devices, half the time it triggers the action on all of them but misses one.  Here's some detailed examples:

Example 1: I have 6 lamps in the house that have Hue bulbs and 3 of them Lutron RA2 dimmers.  Before C4, I'd use the Hue app to turn them on at sunset and then at 3am to turn them all off and same with the RA2 app.  That would always work.  With C4 I do the same thing, they come on at sunset, and then there's a scheduler for 3am to turn them off.  At sunset, they always come on, every single one of them.  However, whenever I get up in the morning, on most days there's always one lamp that is still on.  It's never the same one, always a different one, but there's ALWAYS one that didn't turn off.  Sometimes a Hue one, sometimes a RA2 one, but every other morning there's 1 lamp left on.

Example 2: I have 6 Serena shades in the kitchen and they are in a Shade Group.  I also have them set to close at midnight, and to open at 6am with the group.  I get up in the morning, and maybe 2 times a week there's one shade still closed.  Always a different one, but always one left.  Even if I use the experience button to open or close them, often times it opens 5 of them but leaves 1 behind.

Example 3: In a guest bedroom I have a C4 keypad where the buttons rare connected to Advanced Lightning scenes.  These scenes include 2 Hue lamps, and the ceiling load connected to the C4 dimmer.  You press the button on it, and 95% of the time it works, but 5% of the time, either one Hue light just doesn't come on, or often times, the actual load doesn't come on.  You press the button again and then it works.  Same thing when turning the lights off, you press Room Off and often times all but 1 light turn off.

Example 4: I have a program set that when the alarm is armed away, it closes 13 shades, and when disarmed it opens them.  Same thing here, half the time 12 of them will close, but 1 random one will stay open.

How can I check or troubleshoot this?  The first thing I know people will say is that it's a Hue issue or mesh issue, but it 100% is not.  It does it with all different lightning, not just Hue, and as I said, we've had Hue for 10 years without an issue ever before.  We used to use it with Home Assistant and HomeSeer doing the exact same programming and it never left lights or shades behind.  My dealer hasn't been super helpful basically blaming the Hue and Lutron bridge but I thought I'd post on here before reaching out to them again.  If it was always Hue that would be one thing, but it does it often times with ZigBee C4 lighting as well.  I'm most likely going to have them remove all programming on these lights and just go back to what I had before where I use the Hue or Lutron apps to create schedules in their apps directly as this is super frustrating considering what we paid for C4 to specifically avoid having to use multiple apps. 

Is there a log or something I can check to see what it thinks came on?  Or any other suggestions?  

[Cyknight]

You may be well advised to contact one of the numerous remote dealers on here to have a look at the programming.

 

First thing I can think of is to ask how are these schedules and buttons programmed.

As in what method was used. It's possible the issue is just too many commands at once trying to get executed, or lighting scenes are used that aren't set up right, or are too large to be reliable - but not being able to see the programming, can't really say that's the issue or not.

 

Look in the 'looking for..' section for several people that can help remotely, or at least have a look to try and get an idea of the how and why this may be happening.

[Andrew luecke]

Try adding delays

[RAV]

So, your shades could be a group in Control4 or a group in RA, and there's a big difference.

If in Control4 it would need to send 13 commands to RA on the LAN, and then RA sends 13 RF commands to the shades.
If in RA, then Control4 sends 1 command to RA on the LAN, and then RA sends 13 RF commands to the shades

And that can be extended to HUE as well.
Thus the questions as to how is it programmed. Which can lead to network infrastructure as well.

[416to305]

So, before getting C4 we used Home Assistant and HomeSeer, both of which ran on an old Raspberry Pi.  Every single one of these events were moved over from those systems, where I never had this issue.  So, I find it a bit hard to believe that an EA5 can't handle turning on 5 Hue lights when a 5 year old Raspberry Pi has no issue.  Absolutely nothing has changed in terms of light locations or bridge locations.  As a test, a few days ago I removed the programming from C4, and then put the schedules back on the Hue and Lutron bridges instead.  Every single light and shade works on schedule as expected.  2 days ago I put it back to C4, and both mornings when I've got up there's either been a lamp left on, or a shade still open.

FWIW there's no events running 13 commands, the most is maybe 5, and that's:

- Turn off Living Room Left Hue Lamp
- Turn off Living Room Right Hue Lamp
- Turn off Family Room Hue Lamp
- Turn off Foyer Hue Lamp
- Turn off Hallway Hue Lamp

Then another programming event is the same thing:

- Open Kitchen Main Serena Shade
- Open Kitchen Left Window Serena Shade
- Open Kitchen Right Window Serena Shade
- Open Kitchen Left Door Serena Shade
- Open Kitchen Right Door Serena Shade

For this one above, I even changed the programming to instead simply trigger a Lutron scene which includes all these shades so that it's only triggering 1 device vs 5, and that worked for a few days, but this morning I got up and all the shades are closed.  

And then lastly, the other one that has issues is a C4 keypad where the buttons are connected to Advanced Lighting scenes which include the load, plus 2 Hue lamps.  You press the main button on the keypad, and the Hue lamps come on, but the ceiling load does not.  You press it again and then it comes on.  Same thing when turning them off, sometimes pressing the Room Off button only turns off the Hue lamps and not the connected load until you press it again.  This happens maybe 1 in 10 times I press the buttons.

The main issue is with the schedulers, as almost all the issues occur with scheduled events, like opening the shades at 6am, or turning off the Hue lamps at 3am.  These are not complicated scenes, and have at most 5 or 6 devices in them, not 13.  However, as mentioned before, these have been moved from Home Assistant 100% identical the way they were set up there, where they have ran for years without issues.  If I put it back to Home Assistant it works fine, so it's not a Hue bridge or mesh or whatever issue, it's 100% something with C4.

My Dealer is coming out next week as he thinks the EA5 might be defective as it doesn't matter if there's 1 event or 5 in the programming, it basically just acts like C4 ignores the trigger at random times and doesn't fire the event, which is basically proven by this morning having it not trigger 1 single event being to run the open shades scene on the Lutron bridge.
 

 

[South Africa C4 user]

You could try adding a 250ms delay between each command

[Cyknight]

4 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

You could try adding a 250ms delay between each command

even 100ms.

The reason the 5 year old Pi does it may simply be because it's slower to push each command line, and the HUE bridge isn't as bombarded by commands, missing some.

Not saying that's it - but easy enough to implement and try.

On 3/15/2022 at 8:38 AM, 416to305 said:

And then lastly, the other one that has issues is a C4 keypad where the buttons are connected to Advanced Lighting scenes which include the load, plus 2 Hue lamps.  You press the main button on the keypad, and the Hue lamps come on, but the ceiling load does not.  You press it again and then it comes on.  Same thing when turning them off, sometimes pressing the Room Off button only turns off the Hue lamps and not the connected load until you press it again.  This happens maybe 1 in 10 times I press the buttons.

This is something of a know issue that is hopefully getting fixed in the upcoming OS update and possible driver updates - HUE lighting (and some other 3rd party lighting) and advanced lighting scenes don't play nice 100% of the time, especially in a mixed environment, especially if there is any reliance on tracking (as in a toggle).

Note that it seems to be better if there is an actual 'off' scene created for it's toggle scene in these scenarios, in my own experience.

On 3/15/2022 at 8:38 AM, 416to305 said:

My Dealer is coming out next week as he thinks the EA5 might be defective as it doesn't matter if there's 1 event or 5 in the programming, it basically just acts like C4 ignores the trigger at random times and doesn't fire the event, which is basically proven by this morning having it not trigger 1 single event being to run the open shades scene on the Lutron bridge.

That's not proven in the slightest - at least in the sense that this is not likely a hardware issue at all. Not impossible, but I'd more lean to get C4 techsupport to run a software check vs a hardware replacement

[Cyknight]

I do want to add, something is obviously not working right here - not denying that, nor am I pointing to the hub, the devices, the mesh etc.

I CAN tell you that I trigger half a dozen HUE lights and other '3rd party' devices daily, numerous times a day even, and don't see what you're seeing. Hence looking into the way things are programmed is the first thought, even after the added info you've given.

[416to305]

Happy to report that it was the EA5 that was defective.  My dealer swapped it for a new unit on March 15th and I have not had one issue with programming leaving devices behind, so all good now almost 3 weeks solid where before it did it every single day without fail.

[Bogdy]

Dear@416to305, regarding the Hue lamps happy that the EA5 fixed the apparent problem, although for the future readers I might have some hints:

• it is better to use a Philips Hue scene inside the Hue and trigger that from outside, this way all the Hue lamps are in sync (this can be done with this driver https://www.unilogiq.com/en/control4-drivers)
• The farther the lamps away from the Hue Gateway the longer the link (it's a mesh network), the higher the probability to receive all commands, thus make sure that the Wifi and Hue frequencies are set properly for coexistence (https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/zigbee-wifi-coexistence/).
• Limit the number of devices per Hue Gateway to 50 (the gateway is not a race-car  ) otherwise commands might get dropped
• Limit the number of pulls from the Hue Gateway by different apps so that the Hue gateway is not under high load
• Make sure the Hue lights are always powered