EA-1 at each TV versus a few on Matrix?

[cnicholson]

Hello.

If I understand correctly, C4 recommends an EA-1 at each TV location.  I will have lots of TVs (~20).  I would like the option of having OSD at each TV, but that's a lot of EA-1s.    If I have video distribution, can I stack up 3-4 EA-1s centrally and have the user experience be seamless?  In other words three separate users in separate room can press the button and get the OSD display (in the correct room mode)?

I know the EA-1 also helps with zigbee mesh and have extra I/O, but I'm ignoring that for the moment.

Thanks!

 

 

[eggzlot]

8 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

Hello.

If I understand correctly, C4 recommends an EA-1 at each TV location.  I will have lots of TVs (~20).  I would like the option of having OSD at each TV, but that's a lot of EA-1s.    If I have video distribution, can I stack up 3-4 EA-1s centrally and have the user experience be seamless?  In other words three separate users in separate room can press the button and get the OSD display (in the correct room mode)?

I know the EA-1 also helps with zigbee mesh and have extra I/O, but I'm ignoring that for the moment.

Thanks!

 

 

Yes if you have a video matrix you can do that - with the obvious caveat that if you have 4 EA1s in the rack only 4 unique OSD's can be displayed across the 20 TVs at one time.  Given the use of OSD I am fairly sure this would suffice 99.9% of the time.

C4 I think recommends it like you said to help with zigbee, extra I/O that is sometimes needed to control a local AVR, IR control of a TV or other AV device local, etc.  

From my experience - the OSD during my first demo of c4 was "super cool".  It has defaulted to being used less than a handful of times a year - usually if we are in bed, phones are charging and we go did we forget to do XYZ which rarely happens given we have a goodnight command that puts the house in order with lights, doors, AV, etc.

[chopedogg88]

I only put EA1s at the TV unless like eggzlot said, they are needed for zigbee or I/O.  Its an unnecessary cost and would rather see that money spent in other places.  Most of my clients rarely use the C4 on-screen navigator.

[RAV]

Depending on how you'll use the system.
Put an EA at the main TVs that are the most GUI intensive, and then matrix a couple for the others.

[zaphod]

Not much reason to use the OSD especially since everyone is used to using their phones these days for everything.  But you will want to make sure that the TVs play nicely with IP control.

[msgreenf]

Agree OSD is a little hyped and hardly used.  Used to be more valuable

[LollerAgent]

40 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

Hello.

If I understand correctly, C4 recommends an EA-1 at each TV location.  I will have lots of TVs (~20).  I would like the option of having OSD at each TV, but that's a lot of EA-1s.    If I have video distribution, can I stack up 3-4 EA-1s centrally and have the user experience be seamless?  In other words three separate users in separate room can press the button and get the OSD display (in the correct room mode)?

I know the EA-1 also helps with zigbee mesh and have extra I/O, but I'm ignoring that for the moment.

Thanks!

 

 

Totally overkill as others have suggested.  I have 10+ TV's, and I have a EA1 behind *one* of them.  I never use the on-screen-display.  The OSD seems cool, but with so many other interfaces that are easier to access (eg, phones, tablets, keypads), I think you are overestimating it's usefulness.

If you need I/O, consider adding a local controller.  For Zigbee, if you use C4 lighting and/or distribute wireless keypads throughout the home (zigbee repeaters), you should be fine.

[RyanE]

The new OSD is a bit nicer, but still, with Neeo remotes, I don't use it all that much either.

RyanE

[cnicholson]

Thanks for the responses.  If I do just a few EA-1s on the matrix, will Control4 "magic" make the user experience the same as if really behind each TV?   In other words: If I press the C4 Logo button on an SR-260 that is set to "Bedroom4," will the OSD pop up on the Bedroom4 TV in Bedroom4 "mode"?

In previous DIY home automation projects, I have been accused of setting things up so only I can understand it / use it. So, for this project (our "forever home"), I'm trying to make things as easy as possible, without assuming that guests will have the C4 app on their phones, etc.  I think the OSD interface is more approachable/intuitive for first-time users than the SR-260 (or even the Neeo).

Thanks again.

[TFlury]

12 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

Thanks for the responses.  If I do just a few EA-1s on the matrix, will Control4 "magic" make the user experience the same as if really behind each TV?   In other words: If I press the C4 Logo button on an SR-260 that is set to "Bedroom4," will the OSD pop up on the Bedroom4 TV in Bedroom4 "mode"?

In previous DIY home automation projects, I have been accused of setting things up so only I can understand it / use it. So, for this project (our "forever home"), I'm trying to make things as easy as possible, without assuming that guests will have the C4 app on their phones, etc.  I think the OSD interface is more approachable/intuitive for first-time users than the SR-260 (or even the Neeo).

Thanks again.

OSD is a binding on the controllers just like audio and video endpoints. You can Set EA1 to be OSD for multiple rooms but it will not de dynamic.

EA1 #1 - OSD for Family Room, Theater, Kitchen

EA1 #2 - OSD for Guest Room, Basement, Kids Room

EA1 #3 - OSD for Owners Suite

If you hit the C4 button in the Kids Room and Guest room you would get the same OSD. It is not dynamic to what room calls for the OSD. I agree with all the other replies as OSD is not really used any more. If you have distributed audio in the guest room I would suggest it there as it is easier to navigate than on a SR260. A lot of recent projects I don't waste an input into the HDMI matrix for OSD. 

EDIT * Not sure what room will be selected when calling OSD to come up when it is bound to multiple rooms. I have not done that since OS 2.5

[cnicholson]

Got it.  Thanks.  If "context" (which room's controls are shown on OSD based on room) then I think it would be more confusing than helpful.   Maybe room mode can be switched programatically.  Maybe the most "idiot proof" solution for guests would be a tabletop T4 or Tablet with a printed label "Use me to control everything" stuck on the back.

I hear the feedback on OSD being rarely used.  I will do some "which is more intuitive to figure out?" testing with Wifey as test subject before committing to overall solution.  I consider myself to be above-average on nerd/gadget spectrum, and the SR-260 was not at all intuitive to me at first for anything beyond Watch and Listen selection / control.

[crshepard7]

I’d strongly recommend only using OSD on main TV areas where you’ll want to access categories other than audio & video…especially things like cameras, or if you’ll have lots of security sensors you want to monitor frequently. It just makes so much more sense to use a phone, tablet, or touchscreen for this though. Using the OSD for Watch or Listen categories actually takes more steps & is just silly for the vast majority of users. If you do insist on using several controllers for OSD, I’d suggest placing them at the main TV locations versus the matrix. They will be much more useful as Zigbee & I/O devices at the TV locations. Of the numerous systems I’ve implemented with 10-20 TVs, not one of them have had more than two controllers since the handheld remotes got Watch & Listen buttons.

source: have been a C4 installer/programmer since 2008. 

[Cyknight]

So.

-YES Control4's basic recommendation is to put a controller behind each TV for OSD and local control.

-YES there are dealers out there that will follow that blindly

-NO it's not a requirement.

-Even if TV can't be (reliably) controlled over the network, an IR connection back to a main rack only takes 2 wires (plus many HDBaseT distribution options allow using the balun for IR as well).

-OSD, while nice and I personally like it, is a user case base of need. I LIKE it on my TVs because of 1) movie selection from an existing movie server - just easier to browse than on a small tablet let alone phone 2) music playing with the media info on a big screen.

If you have or care for neither, well....

-OSD CAN be easy to use for guests! Just tell them to press the "4" button and they can basically figure it out from there to watch TV.

 

18 hours ago, TFlury said:

If you hit the C4 button in the Kids Room and Guest room you would get the same OSD. It is not dynamic to what room calls for the OSD. I agree with all the other replies as OSD is not really used any more. If you have distributed audio in the guest room I would suggest it there as it is easier to navigate than on a SR260. A lot of recent projects I don't waste an input into the HDMI matrix for OSD. 

EDIT * Not sure what room will be selected when calling OSD to come up when it is bound to multiple rooms. I have not done that since OS 2.5

-Just to note, if a single controller runs multiple OSD locations, when you press the "4" on the "Kitchen" remote - the OSD will automatically load to the kitchen room on the TV - user doesn't need to change rooms to control the room they are in. Where it gets iffy is that if 2 people in two rooms use the OSD AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. So you may want to have more than one, or local ones in high traffic rooms. But the chance of overlap are pretty minimal overall.

 

 

 

[johnnyboy]

I added EA-1's at 2 TV's to get the OSD on each. Dealer said I would get used to using SR260, but I had already gotten used to OSD at main TV where there is an EA-3 as the main controller. I think it is what you are used to and wife wanted OSD

One caveat. One of those EA-1's is at a TV that is small (32"). I wanted and bought Samsung Frame for that location and then found out the following about the small Samsung Frame TV:

1. Only has 2 HDMI ports (cable and Roku) so it did not come with OSD easily. Dealer did great job of installing a cheap HDMI switch and a driver that makes it seem like I have 3 HDMI ports.

2. It does not come with ethernet port!! So this TV is controlled by WiFi. My signal and network is pretty good so no real problems. It is a little bit slower than the IP controlled TV's (also frames but large ones with IP and 4 HDMI ports.)

3. Its performance is not near as good as large Frame Tvs.

4. It does not have the motion sensor to activate Art mode so not sure all of this was worth it.)

[cnicholson]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

when you press the "4" on the "Kitchen" remote - the OSD will automatically load to the kitchen room on the TV - user doesn't need to change rooms to control the room they are in

Thank you for this clarification.  Trying to share an EA-1 to multiple rooms would be counter-productive otherwise (from an intuition / ease of use perspective).

[Neo1738]

Mostly OSD is used on guest rooms to make it easier like a hotel for them.

[cdcllc]

I have 1 EA-5 on a matrix with 6 TV's and 2 people in the house.  Same experience as what others are saying - we use OSD maybe once per month primarily from the bedroom.  The OSD automatically comes on the TV from the room tied to the SR-260 that initiated OSD.  So absolutely you can share a great many OSDs per TV and not run into a problem.  If all I was doing was adding EA-1s for OSD, I would be very aggressive with the ratio of EA-1s to TV's knowing that I can always add more if it turns out to be a problem.  And if OSDs were driving a much bigger and more costly matrix, I would seriously consider cutting even more.

[Cyknight]

Just to clarify - 20 EA1's is INSANE in my opinion.

One in a distributed system, MAYBE 2 for 20 TVs, then add one to main viewing area, one in a dedicated guest room, maybe one in the master.....

Know that in my house OSD gets a fair amount of use, and for 10 TVs I'm still only using 3 OSD devices, basically as above - one distributed, then one each for two dedicated areas to watch TV (Family room and Theatre)

 

I DO however want to note one important thing here, and that is ZIGBEE. If your house has 20 TVs I assume it's a good size - in which case there is likely a need to have a few zigbee meshes to make zigbee devices work properly (either because you have full c4 lighting and a lot of them - or you don't have any or very little an you need the coverage).

If THAT is the reason to add more EA1's locally, then there's nothing wrong at all there. Add that it will depend on construction as well - wood build houses with drywall need a lot less than mortar and brick or cement/cementblock .

So there may be MORE to the 20 EA1 story than just OSD (though 20 is still a crazy amount)

[RyanE]

14 hours ago, Cyknight said:

If THAT is the reason to add more EA1's locally, then there's nothing wrong at all there. Add that it will depend on construction as well - wood build houses with drywall need a lot less than mortar and brick or cement/cementblock .

I find that one per rebar-reinforced concrete cell really works to boost the Zigbee strength.

If your house is not a jail, you really don't need an EA1 per room, unless you like overkill on your overkill.

RyanE

[chopedogg88]

If just using EA1s for zigbee, then I would recommend just using the (less expensive) CA1 controller.

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, chopedogg88 said:

If just using EA1s for zigbee, then I would recommend just using the (less expensive) CA1 controller.

For sure, that's what we usually do though one can argue that at that point using a local EA1 for OSD makes sense in a way. Then again, placing your ZigBee access point behind a TV isn't ideal either.

 

Regardless I dare say the consensus is that 20 EA1's is just a 'touch' much.

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, RyanE said:

I find that one per rebar-reinforced concrete cell really works to boost the Zigbee strength.

If your house is not a jail, you really don't need an EA1 per room, unless you like overkill on your overkill.

RyanE

LOL, you're not as far off as you think - we did have to do exactly that (though they were hc250's at the time) once in a 'special' concrete designer build with full reinforced concrete floors, roof and walls, with full lighting, maybe ... 2500sqf floor plan, bungalow style just to get it to work. Basically 6 rooms int he house, 3 per floor, with reinforced concrete walls as the support for the structure, and zigbee would NOT penetrate to even the other side of the wall

[zaphod]

Maybe we need cheap POE ZAPs that are kind of like WAPs.  Around $100 to put a flying saucer looking POE device on the ceiling of each room.

[msgreenf]

5 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Maybe we need cheap POE ZAPs that are kind of like WAPs.  Around $100 to put a flying saucer looking POE device on the ceiling of each room.

it's called the CA1

[RyanE]

3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

... full reinforced concrete floors, roof and walls, with full lighting ...

I'm kind of surprised how well Zigbee propagates at my house, because all floors have concrete, due to the radiant tubing install.

That said, it's only 1.5" of concrete, with 3/4" PEX-AL-PEX tubing, not a full rebar / slab per floor, and of course the walls are stick-framed, which is pretty Zigbee-transparent.

RyanE