fleon Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Here's a heads up- don't buy from Blackwire. Here's my current situation: - I am moving from an EA5 to a CA10. My old dealer doesn't work in this area anymore, so I have a new dealer. - Blackwire has their own driver authentication system (that's not unusual). - Blackwire refuses to move my driver license from my old dealer to my new dealer. So, in a nutshell, anyone in my situation is out all the money they've spent on Blackwire drivers. I confirmed this would be true in the following situations: -old dealer dies. You are out of luck -moving to new hardware when old hardware fails. Out of luck This is insane. Their claim that "the dealer owns the license" ignores whole swaths of third-party beneficiary law. In a situation where they even acknowledge that the dealer isn't the intended beneficiary, they still claim that the end-user doesn't matter. This is ridiculous. Thank god I don't own a ton of Blackwire drivers. If I did - or if any of you do - I'd be out all the money I've spent on them. Their solution? "Buy all your drivers, that you have paid for, again". I've been told by several dealers that the owner of Blackwire is a dick. No kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam from Wales Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 But you didn't buy the driver from Blackwire, the dealer did, right? This is like showing up at Target with a receipt from Walmart and asking for a refund on something somebody else bought. I see your point of view but if you are not a Control4 dealer, employee of a dealer, employee of Control4, etc, you shouldn't have access to Composer or any drivers, pretty sure that's a violation of the dealer agreement Neo1738 and brantlmcdonald 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleon Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 Please go look up third-party beneficiaries. IAAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleon Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 Just now, fleon said: Please go look up third-party beneficiaries. IAAL. Also, I'm NOT asking for access to the driver. I am asking them to move my license to a new dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case? I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Hmpf. Sounds like there's something going on in the background that isn't mentioned - we've never had any issues dealing with Blackwire (or the owner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam from Wales Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said: Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case? I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects. 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, fleon said: Here's a heads up- don't buy from Blackwire. Here's my current situation: - I am moving from an EA5 to a CA10. My old dealer doesn't work in this area anymore, so I have a new dealer. - Blackwire has their own driver authentication system (that's not unusual). - Blackwire refuses to move my driver license from my old dealer to my new dealer. So, in a nutshell, anyone in my situation is out all the money they've spent on Blackwire drivers. I confirmed this would be true in the following situations: -old dealer dies. You are out of luck -moving to new hardware when old hardware fails. Out of luck I can see how this is very frustrating for you. I wouldn't be happy. Does your old dealer no longer have a BW account? Seems like he should be able to help you out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleon Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said: Did you approach your old dealer to support in this case? I´d expect there´s a way to transfer a license to a new dealer. But that should be driven by your old dealer. If he´s not willing to support here, he´s the one to blame, here IMHO because that´s not a proper way to phase out old customers/projects. My old dealer is not in business anymore, as far as I can tell. They moved to another state from what I understand and I have no working contact info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleon Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Hmpf. Sounds like there's something going on in the background that isn't mentioned - we've never had any issues dealing with Blackwire (or the owner). Such as? Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. Also, this is not industry standard. None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers. LollerAgent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 hours ago, fleon said: Such as? Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. Also, this is not industry standard. None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers. Does your new dealer have an account with BlackWire? If so, they should be in touch with them, not you, the homeowner. If they do not, they will have to get an account first even if the key would be changed. BlackWire is a wholesale distributor and doesn't work with end-users on support issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Liam from Wales said: But you didn't buy the driver from Blackwire, the dealer did, right? This is like showing up at Target with a receipt from Walmart and asking for a refund on something somebody else bought. I see your point of view but if you are not a Control4 dealer, employee of a dealer, employee of Control4, etc, you shouldn't have access to Composer or any drivers, pretty sure that's a violation of the dealer agreement I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous. Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller? penn65000 and THawes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-defunct- Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, therockhr said: I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous. Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller? Respect old dealer's rights as their customer. I have heard it before. wnpublic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, therockhr said: I've seen a lot of terrible analogies on here but this might be the most ridiculous. Why on earth would Blackwire not allow a new dealer to move these drivers to a new controller? Agree, it’s ridiculous penn65000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, ejn1 said: Agree, it’s ridiculous Cause how do you authenticate anything? And the driver is in another dealers account. The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Cause how do you authenticate anything? And the driver is in another dealers account. The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues Then why didnt Blackwire tell the new dealer this? why are they saying he has to purchase another driver? Are they punishing the end user because the new dealer isnt a blackwire customer? How can you all defend this? wnpublic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 minute ago, therockhr said: How can you all defend this? I won't defend or condemn anything that I hear from a single side, and I expect the same from most others. This is a single anecdote. Take it for what it's worth. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Cause how do you authenticate anything? And the driver is in another dealers account. The Blackwire driver manager, when properly configured can actually automatically move between controllers without any issues I guess my thinking is if the customer has a valid license key then that is enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 If you check the Blackwire site: SOFTWARE UPDATE & SUPPORT POLICY Software license purchases includes support for 1 year from date of purchase. This support includes phone, email, chat, ticket assistance. If you require support after 1 year a 25% fee of the current price may be required to provide assistance. Purchasing a software license does not guarantee free updates to the latest version. The license you are purchasing include support for the version of automation system listed in the release notes on the day of purchase. If a future automation software update is released there is no guarantee the license you are purchasing will be transferred and supported. You are responsible for checking if the software license purchased is compatible with the OS you are updating your projects to. Each license purchased belongs to the original purchaser. Licenses can be transferred between dealer accounts at the sole discretion of BlackWire and a fee may be required to do so. A minimum 25% fee of the drivers current purchase price may be incurred if you are requesting a large number of licenses to be transferred. Like most every SW company, I'd assume if you can prove the license is in your name and legit, they'd move it. Is it possible your old dealer sold you a copy that was registered in his name and there's no trail of ownership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 havent had this experience before but it is lame. If a dealer sold me a Sonos speaker and it failed I could go to Sonos with the receipt for service, no? I guess its tricky where BW sees the integrator as the customer and I am not against the dealer model but yeah to me a driver should stay with the home owner, not the dealer. If a dealer goes belly up its not fair for BW to charge a customer just to move a license over to a new dealer. that said I've had issues with other drivers which is why when possible, especially for anything critical, I try to get hardware with native c4 support. I tend to only use 3rd party drivers for "fun" things. therockhr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-defunct- Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 hour ago, ekohn00 said: Like most every SW company, I'd assume if you can prove the license is in your name and legit, they'd move it. Is it possible your old dealer sold you a copy that was registered in his name and there's no trail of ownership? Fairly sure Blackwire only allows purchases by dealers, so original purchaser will always be the installing dealer. wnpublic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 If I understand this correctly, @Blackwire would allow a dealer to transfer a driver license for 25% of the current price of the driver, so I have to say I find it hard to believe and disappointing that Blackwire is not willing to make an accommodation for @fleon given his dealer is out of business (which should be verifiable by Blackwire). That said, we are only hearing one side of the story and it is likely too late given @fleon took the approach of throwing Blackwire under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, eggzlot said: havent had this experience before but it is lame. If a dealer sold me a Sonos speaker and it failed I could go to Sonos with the receipt for service, no? I guess its tricky where BW sees the integrator as the customer and I am not against the dealer model but yeah to me a driver should stay with the home owner, not the dealer. If a dealer goes belly up its not fair for BW to charge a customer just to move a license over to a new dealer. that said I've had issues with other drivers which is why when possible, especially for anything critical, I try to get hardware with native c4 support. I tend to only use 3rd party drivers for "fun" things. These policies certainly aren’t customer focused nor will help sell a lot of drivers…. How else can a customer (the real customer, not a reseller) have a valid license key? This should be all that’s required to get this resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 7 hours ago, fleon said: Such as? Regardless of anything "going on" this is not the way to treat a customer. Also, this is not industry standard. None of the other driver sites have had any issues moving my drivers. Such as.... an issue with your current dealer for example. RyanE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 just curious if DriverCentral or other 3rd party platforms have the same restrictions/fees to move dealers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.