Pounce Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 hours ago, ejn1 said: Streaming is just coming in with more compression vs disc is my take. Yes. But its also variable. An impaired connection reduces bandwidth and therefore increases artifacts to support continued viewing without hicups in the viewing. So if you get compression artifacts they can be from your region, service provider, congestion in the area, your internal networking and the decoding device. Many factors. But, yes, logically streaming has less data than the disc and will not have the same capability. For sure. But its really good these days and I'm appreciating that the Shield can deliver. Most people are so involved in the content and accept compression artifacts as normal that they don't care. Only us weird people care the eek out all that the technology can deliver. We are certainly lucky that Netflix and Amazon are ramping up their HDR and Atmos support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLite Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 If you’ve been having reliability issues, try AV Pro HDMI extenders. They are pricey, but seem to be the most reliable performers on the market. Thanks a lot. Is there a difference between an HDMI Extender and a balun?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WholeHomeControl Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, DLite said: Thanks a lot. Is there a difference between an HDMI Extender and a balun? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There is no difference. Actually, the term “balun” is not technically correct, as it implies a conversion from a balanced to unbalanced signal, which does not happen with HDMI extenders. However, it is very common to use the term balun when referring to extenders. DLite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 hours ago, AhViaMusicom said: NOW, I want to be able to play the same source throughout my house and outside and have it and the audio be synchronized. Ive done this with cable and DTV boxes at each location and it isnt always in sync. Most frequently it is a DTV DVR on one tv (the main that feeds audio through the house) and the others. I also want to be able to play video on all tvs and the same audio through the house. For example, Im having a sporting event party and want to watch the same game (in sync) all through the house and when commercials come on, i want to listen to music in all rooms, or maybe in some rooms. Or maybe i want to leave the sporting even on on all tvs but i want a different even on the main tv and its audio playing everywhere else. Im also considering multiple tvs on one wall. Perfect. You are getting good advice. This is the good use case for distributed. IP based solutions are worth a look, but I'd connect with your local dealer that you want to use on what they normally support. These can offer some of the tiling and video wall functions over some other basic HDMI matrix. SnapAV MOIP Just Add Power VideoStorm SnapAV MOIP may be easier from a dealer perspective with Control4 due to the ownership etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Excellent. This is great. Im gathering that fiber hdmi from matrix to each location is better than baluns at each spot over cat5/6. Please correct me if wrong. Since wires are all being homerun, what other wires are recommended to be pulled? Ill run cat5/6 just because it makes sense. I live in a large 1 story home so if I may need something in the future, id like to do it now. I look forward to continuing to update this thread throughout so hopefully it can help someone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 hours ago, AhViaMusicom said: All of my tvs are 4k Not sure if I read anyone who posted this, but I wasn't able to use Cat 5 successfully to extend video. That said, we only tried once and can't even remember the gear used. When pushing 4K UltraHD video over Cat 5, distance, connectors, crimps are very important to keep track of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, AhViaMusicom said: Im gathering that fiber hdmi from matrix to each location is better than baluns at each spot over cat5/6. Please correct me if wrong. Since wires are all being homerun, what other wires are recommended to be pulled? Ill run cat5/6 just because it makes sense. Regardless of whether you end up initially using HDMI from a central location I think the advice to run 8k HDMI Fiber to each TV is a good idea. The cables aren't really all that expensive these days. HDMI plus 3 Cat6. If you need to support a center channel speaker at the TV location you might include a cable for that. Again, I'd really consider having a dealer design the solution for you. They will make sure you have what you need. Its good you have a head start. That will make the conversation much easier. Not sure what else you have automated, but its a good time to do lighting, outlets, cameras, motion, more wireless AP's, etc. Those can require cable runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pounce said: Regardless of whether you end up initially using HDMI from a central location I think the advice to run 8k HDMI Fiber to each TV is a good idea. The cables aren't really all that expensive these days. HDMI plus 3 Cat6. If you need to support a center channel speaker at the TV location you might include a cable for that. Again, I'd really consider having a dealer design the solution for you. They will make sure you have what you need. Its good you have a head start. That will make the conversation much easier. Not sure what else you have automated, but its a good time to do lighting, outlets, cameras, motion, more wireless AP's, etc. Those can require cable runs. this is what im doing. I know my A/V guy leans toward running cat5/6 and using baluns as I was just invlved with him at a friends house. I want to be able to ask intelligent questions rather than just taking someones word for it because it is their preference or what they know. I am planning on having AOPs hardwired throughout as well as speakers in new locations. My questions are mainly about existing surround receivers, tvs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, AhViaMusicom said: this is what im doing. I know my A/V guy leans toward running cat5/6 and using baluns as I was just invlved with him at a friends house. I want to be able to ask intelligent questions rather than just taking someones word for it because it is their preference or what they know. I am planning on having AOPs hardwired throughout as well as speakers in new locations. My questions are mainly about existing surround receivers, tvs etc. For sure you are doing the smart thing. If the installer just does ethernet and doesn't like running fiber HDMI then you know you need to twist his arm. I think get familiar with what the IP based distribution systems offer. You know about Baluns for extending HDMI and/or audio for deliver and return channels. The fiber option would not need a balun. A pair of fiber hdmi cables would also allow you to get arc or earc back to the rack for distributed audio from a local source at the tv. Then with the IP solutions you have transmitters and receivers. Baluns and IP solutions both use ethernet from rack to TV, but do so in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakelay Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Fiber is good for future proofing but I would skip cat5 and go right to Cat6/7. Too many limitations with Cat5. If it’s cheaper you could add one or two as stated above for an extra speaker option or, more likely, for control i.e. IR or IP control of your Tv, other sources, etc. You can never have enough wire. Some HDBaseT setups allow Ethernet Pass-Through or the baluns/receivers have control built into them passed through the cables but having an extra Cat cable gives you more options in case the system your installer is comfortable with doesn’t have that option. Again, it’s all about options. I would also make sure you put in one or two cable chases if you are doing new construction. That gives the best and cheapest option for running new wiring in the future and it’s really not that hard/expensive in most newer homes , especially if you have a chase to the attic, to fish cable later so don’t stress if you can’t think of everything right now. Now, this is all new to me as well so if I’m misstating anything, someone please correct me, but these are things I’m learning as I ‘m doing my research and design right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 My thoughts so far for wiring to existing systems: 2 Fiber HDMI cables from Matrix location to each exiting receiver 2 cat6 cables from Matrix location to each existing receiver location 1 cat 5 cable from Matrix location to each existing receiver location (just because) once the consortium signs off on this, we can move to the fun stuff, the matrix itself as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 IMHO the need for centralized video distribution is lessening every day. Components like matrix video switches are very expensive and become obsolete every few years. The VideoStorm type of solution makes a lot of sense to me with Nvidia Shields at every TV. Discs are pretty much dead and streaming is a better solution than cable/sat TV for every type of content other than sports. I still think centralized audio distribution can make sense - any reason why you aren't running speaker wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, AhViaMusicom said: 1 cat 5 cable from Matrix location to each existing receiver location (just because) Pointless to use any cat5. You are buying spools of cat6 or cat7. You just use all the same. Run 3. Do you have a crawl space below are are you on slab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, zaphod said: IMHO the need for centralized video distribution is lessening every day. Components like matrix video switches are very expensive and become obsolete every few years. The VideoStorm type of solution makes a lot of sense to me with Nvidia Shields at every TV. Discs are pretty much dead and streaming is a better solution than cable/sat TV for every type of content other than sports. I still think centralized audio distribution can make sense - any reason why you aren't running speaker wires? Dont know about VideoStorm, but will look into it. Watching sports in multiple rooms (or different sports on multiple tvs in one room) and having the audio and video synched is one of the main reasons I want distributed audio and video. I have speakers all over the places. Several rooms with surround, although ive only gone as far as 5.1. My "whole house" audio originates at my main equipment location in my main tv viewing room. The "whole house" sudio wiring will be redone and come from a new location that will be constructed. 2 hours ago, Pounce said: Pointless to use any cat5. You are buying spools of cat6 or cat7. You just use all the same. Run 3. Do you have a crawl space below are are you on slab? Good point on all cat6/7. I was only running the additional cat5 because its less expensive. Multiple spools have to be purchased so all the runs can happen at the same time. I am on a slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, AhViaMusicom said: I am on a slab. This may sound weird, but you might want to consider having your attic insulation removed for the process and upgrade it when the wiring is done. Not sure how old your house is, but if its on the older side you can kill a few birds while you are up there. If insulation out makes sense because its outdated etc you can do the following: Make a safe and easy space for the retrofit. Make it easy to run ENT smurf tube Easier to add and change ceiling speakers like adding Atmos to your 5.1 spaces. You can add electrical or even wire for central lighting You can add power for automating shades. Add an ERV You can air seal all of your top plates. Its amazing how leaky walls are where the sheetrock meets the top plate. Inspect all of your ducting if you have it an unconditioned attic and fix/replace/upgrade Bring your R rating up to current specs Chose different material or combination of materials like Rockwool batt for sound deadening then blown in for R value Its a very simple process. They vacuum it out into a big filter sock with a big hose. I did this once on my own house because I had a squirrel problem and was grateful for taking the step. I found a few serious issues under the insulation that could have very easily become house fires. None of the top plates were sealed. HVAC boots were poorly sealed. I was able to retrofit ethernet everwhere plus additional circuits. I tripled the R value and switched from fiberglass. If your house is relatively new this might not make sense. If it does make sense your installer would love you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 my house is older and newer in places. the insulation is all new so pulling it and replacing is a no go. lots of excellent points tho. Thank you. Id LOVE to have smurf tube everywhere. that would be very cool. Ill do that in the new section of the house for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 13, 2020 Author Share Posted June 13, 2020 Just received the NVidia shield. Seems to be android version of AppleTV. pretty neat tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, AhViaMusicom said: Just received the NVidia shield. Seems to be android version of AppleTV. pretty neat tho... How is the picture quality for Netflix compared to ATV 4K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 havent done a side-by-side, but i will say it has an AI upscaling setting that looks pretty good. ill try to compare and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 ok, so i just did a back to back quick comparison. Im using "Our planet" on netflix. Ive set the shield to AI upscaling on the sharpest setting. it may not be fair as I havent looked for any higher res on the ATV, but initial take says the NVidia BLOWS the 4k ATV out of the water. it isnt even close. Maybe there is a setting in the ATV that I am unaware of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 now ive just figured out that AI upscaling isnt even enabled for this show. head to head video the nvidea kills the atv, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 11 hours ago, AhViaMusicom said: now ive just figured out that AI upscaling isnt even enabled for this show. head to head video the nvidea kills the atv, imho. wow thanks for the comparisons! I may have to try one also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, ejn1 said: wow thanks for the comparisons! I may have to try one also. You should try one, but go all the way and get the IrUSB from VideoStorm and set up some mini apps. One use case for that that isn't talked about much is that you can deep link to Netflix shows and hidden genres... and there are a lot of genres... http://ogres-crypt.com/public/NetFlix-Streaming-Genres2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 On 6/4/2020 at 4:11 PM, AhViaMusicom said: HI! Ive decided to take the plunge and add proper home automation to my existing home. Currently, I have multiple "home theaters". Basically a few rooms with their own TV, receiver, sources, ATV, cable box, etc. I have in wall/cieling speakers throughout my house that are mostly run by Sonos equipment. I have every possible combination of sonos equipment. I am curious to learn if I can leave some of the existing "home theater" rooms in tact but be able to distribute audi and video to them via C4. In my main viewing/listening area, I have large speakers, a turntable, etc and would like to leave that room in tact, but still be able to control and feed it via C4. I understand that the sonos pieces will probably go away and that i will have to have the speakers fed by multizone amplification etc. Am I crazy or way off base? Any advice or info is truly appreciated in advance. Make sure you really know what you want in the end-game. Reading this original post and then reading the thread, it was a little all over the map. In my opinion, if you have access to a local AV shop, preferably one that deals in multiple systems -- get them to come to your house. Show them what you have, tell them what you want and why, and get their advice. Best question ever is "What would you do and why?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhViaMusicom Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Pounce said: You should try one, but go all the way and get the IrUSB from VideoStorm and set up some mini apps. One use case for that that isn't talked about much is that you can deep link to Netflix shows and hidden genres... and there are a lot of genres... http://ogres-crypt.com/public/NetFlix-Streaming-Genres2.html whoa whoa whoa. What? Tell me more. What are mini apps? what does the IRUsb dongle do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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