4K media player

[zaphod]

Isn't any solution that involves ripping illegal in the US, Canada and most other Developed countries?  

Speaking of streaming, is there a TIdal for video?  What I mean by this is a streaming service that focuses on highest quality content.

[msgreenf]

19 minutes ago, zaphod said:

sn't any solution that involves ripping illegal in the US, Canada and most other Developed countries?  

yes

[Cyknight]

46 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Isn't any solution that involves ripping illegal in the US, Canada? 

It's one of those wonderful areas that are NEVER easily answered, anywhere.

OWNING or SELLING software that can copy movies is not illegal.

For software that is able to decrypt...that gets muddy. If the program's SOLE function is to decrypt, then it is illegal in some countries (primarily the USA).

REDISTRIBUTING any copyrighted material is by default illegal.

Owning a BACKUP of something you already legally OWN is, as such, NOT illegal. Indeed this is generally considered to be a consumer right.

DEFEATING a copy protection...is illegal (in the USA and Canada). UNLESS the copyright owner has an agreement in place to allow it for personal use, be it in general terms, or specific agreements with companies.

That leaves a bit of a hole in that making a direct copy of a disc (with protection in tact) is not illegal. Though of course redistributing that copy would be.

Fun no?

 

And on the most other developed countries part...no it isn't illegal to rip a movie for PERSONAL USE in most European countries (Britain being the exception), Australia and Japan.

Again, that's talking about personal use only - not distributing, sharing or downloading.

[zaphod]

But software like AnyDVD falls under circumventing copy protection.

There are other silly things that are illegal.  The recent Canadian copyright law change technically legalized timeshifting but only for 30 days.  You are not allowed to archive recordings that you mak for the long term.  (That was in the original legislation and I believe it survived to the final version)

[tdougray]

10 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

(Britain being the exception),

Why have we always got to be the exception (and mostly means less good stuff available) 

[Cyknight]

12 minutes ago, zaphod said:

But software like AnyDVD falls under circumventing copy protection.

It is capable of doing that yes. But it's also a copying software (again, that as such isn't illegal!) as well as a region removal tool (which isn't illegal) - moreover it is capable of making copies with full protection intact.....

 

Understand that I'm NOT a legal expert in this - just pointing out that this whole thing is a LOT more complex than a yes/no answer.

[Cyknight]

14 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Why have we always got to be the exception (and mostly means less good stuff available) 

LOL. Hey, I don't choose your government, you do

[zaphod]

21 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Why have we always got to be the exception (and mostly means less good stuff available) 

You're not a European country anymore, or at least soon won't be.

[blub]

I really hope physicaledia does. It vanish, this would such so much as all streaming services have sub par quality compared to physical media...

Consumers need to realize that anything they watch on Amazon prime, Netflix and Disney is something they don't own and can always be subject to change - so what you like is free / included now but might require an extra payment next year....

But I guess most ppl just don't care or... Well I'd rather not say

[alanchow]

I've been testing and developing drivers for media players for the past 15 years now and have come to find some preferences.  This all depends on the user though and i'll try to summarise it here.

Kaldeiscape

• Pros
  • Highest quality
  • Easiest to use
  • Highest quality movie store
  • Event feedback is by far the best
  • Server / Client model means that you can have multiple clients access the same library throughout the home.
  • Control4 driver supports library browsing and is smart enough to select the first unused client available in that room
• Cons
  • Requires seperate server to client
  • Most expensive
  • Bluray discs need to be inserted into a Vault for playback of digital copies (due to legal complications)

Zappiti

• Pros
  • Hardware can playback every codec/container/format i have thrown at it including 4k HDR Bluray ISOs with menu
  • Storage can be on your own NAS or on internal HDD (upto 16tb on the Mini i have)
  • They have a NAS / Ripper if you want something easy to backup your own content.
  • Control4 driver supports library brownsing
• Cons
  • Navigation through Control4 doesn't provide cover art through menu's (only on individual movie page) - This may change in the future if the API changes to support it.
  • Event feedback is not as detailed as Kodi or Kaleidescape.
  • LIbrary is on the client meaning you have to maintain multiple libraries if you have multiple clients.

Kodi

• Pros
  • Its software so you can install on various forms of supported hardware depending on your requirements!
    • From as low end as a raspberry pi
    • To a high end HTPC
  • Storage can be on your own NAS or on internal HDD.
  • Event feedback is fantastic
  • Control4 driver supports library browsing.
• Cons
  • Experience can vary depending on hardware it is installed on
  • Requires user to maintain it
  • LIbrary is on the client meaning you have to maintain multiple libraries if you have multiple clients.

Plex

• Pros
  • Its software so you can install on various forms of supported hardware.
    • From as low end as a raspberry pi
    • To a high end HTPC
  • Server / Client model means that you can have multiple clients access the same library throughout the home.  Different users can get access to different content as well!
  • Control4 driver supports library browsing.
• Cons
  • Client / Server model
  • Server needs to be extremely powerful as it needs to transcode content so lower end clients can play it back.  As such experience can vary depending on hardware it is installed on
  • Requires user to maintain it
  • Event feedback is not as detailed as Kodi or Kaleidescape.

 

At this point in time my personal preference is Zappiti.  If i wasn't invested into Kodi at my own home i would invest in Zappiti myself and will be what i recommend to integrators who want to find a replacement for Dune.

[JSTRONG]

Hi Alan. Just a small clarification. Kaleidescape does not necessarily require server and a client. The strato as you know is a player with built in storage and can operate on its own or play movies from other servers or other stratos. 

[alanchow]

12 minutes ago, JSTRONG said:

Hi Alan. Just a small clarification. Kaleidescape does not necessarily require server and a client. The strato as you know is a player with built in storage and can operate on its own or play movies from other servers or other stratos. 

I understand that.  We have a Cinema One on our testbench which is both server and client.

[zaphod]

Another pro I would add for Plex is that once you have a Plex server running you can access it from pretty much any device, including phones, tablets, etc.  And it works very well to stream remotely as well assuming that you can forward the port that it uses - so you can watch your content when away from home (which isn't very relevant these days), or you can give friends and family access to your movie library - void where prohibited by law.

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, zaphod said:

You're not a European country anymore, or at least soon won't be.

Uhm... that's not how that works.

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

Another pro I would add for Plex is that once you have a Plex server running you can access it from pretty much any device

To be fair, you can do the same with others as well, though you're dependant on the device for quality more than with Plex

Plex biggest drawback to me is no ISO support. I'd consider that a CON for sure.

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, alanchow said:

Navigation through Control4 doesn't provide cover art through menu's (only on individual movie page) - This may change in the future if the API changes to support it

That a big deal to me, and I would assume others.

[alanchow]

3 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

That a big deal to me, and I would assume others.

I agree.  We tried to get around it by downloading each individual movie meta data but the larger the database the longer it took (on average of 2 movies per second).  Made for a terrible experience.

We have given this feedback to Zappiti so lets see if they can solve the problem.

[Time2Jet]

This is all fantastic info, just what I was looking for and more.

 

Kaleidescape is out for me. I just don’t want to temp myself to spend another $20k like I tend to do when something grabs my interest. It’s akin to an addiction. But I think we all can appreciate that part of automation to a degree.

 

Kodi & Plex are both software based solutions snd at least in the case of Plex, no ISO doesn’t do it for me. I’m not wanting to build a pi or really add a computer to my rack either.

 

For me at this point, it looks like it comes down to the Zappiti or the Shield Pro. Alan seems like he’s taken similar paths to mine over the years and seemingly leans toward Zappiti route nowadays. (regardless of my final decision, I’ll be using his drivers, as always). [mention]alanchow [/mention] you mention built in Zappiti ripper ...on which model? And up-to 16TB of storage ...again, in which model can I add that size of drive or any drive? Lastly, mini apps... I know they are available for the Shield, but I’m not even sure the. Zappiti has built in Apps for common streaming services? Alan, can you speak to that? And if it does have the services are there mini apps that will work on the Zappiti?

 

Thanks everyone that’s participated. This turned out to be a decent thread. I’ve learned a lot and hopefully someone else has or will too.

 

 

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[alanchow]

4 minutes ago, time2jet said:

This is all fantastic info, just what I was looking for and more.

 

Kaleidescape is out for me. I just don’t want to temp myself to spend another $20k like I tend to do when something grabs my interest. It’s akin to an addiction. But I think we all can appreciate that part of automation to a degree.

 

Kodi & Plex are both software based solutions snd at least in the case of Plex, no ISO doesn’t do it for me. I’m not wanting to build a pi or really add a computer to my rack either.

 

For me at this point, it looks like it comes down to the Zappiti or the Shield Pro. Alan seems like he’s taken similar paths to mine over the years and seemingly leans toward Zappiti route nowadays. (regardless of my final decision, I’ll be using his drivers, as always). [mention]alanchow [/mention] you mention built in Zappiti ripper ...on which model? And up-to 16TB of storage ...again, in which model can I add that size of drive or any drive? Lastly, mini apps... I know they are available for the Shield, but I’m not even sure the. Zappiti has built in Apps for common streaming services? Alan, can you speak to that? And if it does have the services are there mini apps that will work on the Zappiti?

 

Thanks everyone that’s participated. This turned out to be a decent thread. I’ve learned a lot and hopefully someone else has or will too.

 

 

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Zappiti has a NAS / Ripper

http://zappiti.com/zappiti-nas-rip-4k-hdr.html

The 16TB i mentioned is the internal HDD limitation for the 4K mini i have and that is not a limitation of Zappiti in general.  I currently have a 500GB hard drive in there (as its just one i use for development).

I can't talk about Mini apps for Zappiti as it depends on Zappitis API roadmap.  I can say that it is Android based, can run android apps like Netflix and Youtube and has Google playstore on it.  Having said that it is not Android TV based.

[Time2Jet]

Zappiti has a NAS / Ripper
http://zappiti.com/zappiti-nas-rip-4k-hdr.html
The 16TB i mentioned is the internal HDD limitation for the 4K mini i have and that is not a limitation of Zappiti in general.  I currently have a 500GB hard drive in there (as its just one i use for development).
I can't talk about Mini apps for Zappiti as it depends on Zappitis API roadmap.  I can say that it is Android based, can run android apps like Netflix and Youtube and has Google playstore on it.  Having said that it is not Android TV based.

I actually prefer the 4K Mini. I can do the ripping with software suite or an all in one software ripping package.

You have the Mini, but haven’t delved into determining if the apps can be launched and controlled via a mini app? That’s so unlike you! I’ll do a little research and see what I can find. If there is a workable API for mini apps, would this be something you would consider revising your driver to include? 16TB is a nice size, I was surprised by that so I went to the product docs to confirm, and sure enough it’ll allow up to a 16TB Drive. This is all too tempting to pass up at an equip box cost sub $325 plus a driver and a 16TB Drive. For my current needs, I’d leave my older NAS on my bench and cherry pick a few films. Now, considering we know there are apps for the Kodi and Shield, does that feel like you’d have me look away from Zappiti for the above stated reasons?


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[alanchow]

3 minutes ago, time2jet said:

 

I actually prefer the 4K Mini. I can do the ripping with software suite or an all in one software ripping package.

You have the Mini, but haven’t delved into determining if the apps can be launched and controlled via a mini app? That’s so unlike you! I’ll do a little research and see what I can find. If there is a workable API for mini apps, would this be something you would consider revising your driver to include? 16TB is a nice size, I was surprised by that so I went to the product docs to confirm, and sure enough it’ll allow up to a 16TB Drive. This is all too tempting to pass up at an equip box cost sub $325 plus a driver and a 16TB Drive. For my current needs, I’d leave my older NAS on my bench and cherry pick a few films. Now, considering we know there are apps for the Kodi and Shield, does that feel like you’d have me look away from Zappiti for the above stated reasons?


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I didn't say i didn't.  I said I can't talk about Mini apps for Zappiti as it depends on Zappitis API roadmap.

Also note that you can add network storage to libraries on the system for expansion.

[Time2Jet]

Thanks [mention]alanchow [/mention]

I’m 90% convinced. I’m trying to do some research on the API. I like the box, a lot.


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[ILoveC4]

19 hours ago, alanchow said:

I agree.  We tried to get around it by downloading each individual movie meta data but the larger the database the longer it took (on average of 2 movies per second).  Made for a terrible experience.

We have given this feedback to Zappiti so lets see if they can solve the problem.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Does this mean that when browsing cover art there is no cover art, just a movie title? But when you click on the absent cover art and it goes to the "details" page (whatever it's called) that the cover art shows up there along with the description, rating, etc...?

DH

[alanchow]

2 hours ago, ILoveC4 said:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Does this mean that when browsing cover art there is no cover art, just a movie title? But when you click on the absent cover art and it goes to the "details" page (whatever it's called) that the cover art shows up there along with the description, rating, etc...?

DH

Yes.  Please look at the screen shots for examples.

[ILoveC4]

Yes.  Please look at the screen shots for examples.

Ah - alright. I’m going to hold off then. Do us a favor and let us know if they update that. Once they do, I’m a buyer.


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