What I Look For In A Customer

[Godzilla]

i have no problems with James..........atleast hes being honest........which is more than i can say for most

and he likes Ratt and DLR.........lol

his company........can run it anyway he sees fit...........doesnt mean you have to sign up

[GoGo Delicious]

Maybe James does get enough business, while following those rules, to stay in the black

In regards to the above quote, I am VERY fortunate that is that case. Don't get me wrong I don't take anyone (clients, friends, family, even my pets) for granted. I do work hard and I realize that there are a lot of people and business's out there struggling. Trust me, I realize how fortunate I am.

but they're still terrible advice for other dealers.

I will have to disagree with you here. A business owner has to decided what's worth it to him and how he has to compete. I am not into owning a van and taking on small jobs you have Best Buy for that. I am sure a lot of dealers here have to compete with pricing and service from Best Buy and Magnolia. I don't. With the exception of TiVO not one of our product lines are carried in a retail store. The reason we carry TIVO is 1) the boxes cost us nothing and 2 we give a life time subscription to our clients who want it. Carrying the same products as Best Buy will not appeal to my clients, they are not into that type of equipment. Our clients do not purchase their furniture from Living Spaces they have it custom made, they do not by their Art from Aaron Brothers they acquire it from Fine Art Dealers, and they do not go to Best Buy for A/V gear they purchase from a CI.

The reason we look at potential clients the way we do is that we only take on ONE client at a time. We have to make sure the client is not only dedicated to their project as much as we are, but also has the resources to complete the project.

Congratulations though if he has reached that fantastic state where he can hold customers to this test.

We don't hold clients to any test. We are up front with our potential clients. Up front on how we work, what we expect form a client and what a client should expect from us. There are potential clients that say we are not for them and that is fine. There are potential clients where we say they are not for us there is nothing wrong with that. When we decided to take on project and the client wants to work with us we have a SOW (Scope of Work), TOS, Architectural drawings and plenty of other documentation where the client knows what their agreeing to and what they are purchasing. We hold a client to the documentation they have signed off on. Just as the clients holds us to the terms of service we signed off on.

. . .I wouldn't buy off James... though he probably wouldn't let me anyway.

I don't know you personally so I can not say I would not take you based on who you are. But what would be stopping us is that you are a forum member. We usually do not take on a member of any of the forums I am on.

[GoGo Delicious]

You are like the Maddof fund of Home Automation.

How is that?

We have NEVER ripped off any client and we have NEVER had any type of legal action taken against us. Why would you say something like that if you don't know who I am, never worked with us or know any one who has worked with us. Do you have first hand knowledge how we work with a client?

Also, do you know anyone who is (notice is said IS and not WAS) a victim of Mr. Madoff (you spelled his name wrong above)? I do and I would NEVER accuse anyone of being a Bernie Madoff unless I actually had dealings with them.

It appears you just like to make random accusations with out any first hand knowledge.

[RyanE]

I've seen other companies try it' date=' and fail miserably.[/quote']

Yeh? Which ones? Care to name them?

The one that is at the top of my head is Superna (http://www.supernasystems.com/). It was started by the founder of ICQ in 2003. They went to CEDIA for a few years. They even went so far as to have most of their literature look almost *exactly* like Control4's literature at the time (similar stock photos, exact same positioning and color scheme, etc.).

They had USB-based control modules (relay, ir, RS232, etc.), which was an interesting concept.

They started off completely as DIY, and before slipping quietly into obvlivion (no updates to their website since like 2008), they tried to transition to a dealer/CI model.

There are a few that have tried to use MS Media Center as a base for home automation and DIY as the sales channel, but that's been quite a few years.

Others that have come and gone, and there will be more of them going forward, the number of 'automation systems' that I saw popping up at CES and CEDIA this past year that are completely based around an iPad / iPhone or Android device, and use things like Global Cache for control was amazing. It was like seeing the dandelions popping up in the spring. Most don't provide 2-way functionality, and many won't be at the shows next year.

I've also heard (from a good source in the retail industry) that one of the most returned items at Big Box stores is the straightforward universal remote. Returned gear is the bane of retail.

If end users can't set those up (and their instructions are *NOT* difficult or confusing), I have less faith that they'll be able to properly configure a complete Home Automation system, even scaled back to a single room, no matter how good the wizard or other setup UI is.

Wouldn't take many returns / issues for a Big Box retailer to drop a DIY installed automation system.

Bottom line: I think you're right in that the industry will most definitely change, but I'm less certain how that change is going to come about, when that change is going to come about, or how much it'll affect the traditional CE dealer model.

My magic 8-ball is saying: Reply hazy, try again. Sounds about right.

RyanE

P.S. This sounds like the kind of post that I should include my standard disclaimer. I'm not speaking for Control4.

[cdepaola]

So basically you want un-educated or old folks that have no knowledge of technology so you guys can walk in spec a bunch of stuff and sound really smart? I'm glad your model works for you, I think everyone needs a businss model and there are niches for everyone to work in, so good for you and congrats. Personally I like working with folks who know what they are talking about and can add to the project, not just be sheeple.

[jwhitaker@revit]

Ryan http://www.homeautomationinfo.com/Drupal/company_zenpanion came to mind and I had to giggle when reading your post.. I do remember that USB based autoamtion company BTW. Even still have one of there USB sticks.... that I now use as a restore stick!

[GoGo Delicious]

So basically you want un-educated or old folks

I thought I would respond to correct you. I know you, being an educated person, don't want to be wrong. As far as our clients go the youngest is 24 the oldest is in their mid 60's the majority are in their mid 40's. As far as their education goes they are well educated.

. . . that have no knowledge of technology so you guys can walk in spec a bunch of stuff and sound really smart?

We only "spec stuff" AFTER we do a "Client Lifestyle Discovery". There is NO WAY to tell what a client needs or start specifying equipment for a project unless this is done. I have stated this before, 100% of the time, when we are done with the "Lifestyle Discovery Process" the client discovers needs they have that they never considered and we know what to design for and what equipment to spec. We never "walk in spec a bunch of stuff."

Do I know everything there is to know about technology. N0! But I do know more than most folks. When it comes to technology I own one of the largest data service companies around. I can guarantee that every single one of you here has accessed data, be it online gaming, streaming videos or music, or processing your child's college application, that resides at our data center that uses technology that I own and have designed, managed and operate. With that said I do not know everything there is to know about technology. I am still learning every day.

I'm glad your model works for you, I think everyone needs a businss model and there are niches for everyone to work in, so good for you and congrats.

EXACTLY, We have a VERY narrow niche. Even interior designers don't quite get how we work, just like the average CI or consumer does it quite get it.

As far as the "Lifestyle Discover" goes below is the excerpt of the "Lifestyle Discover" point I make in the thread titled "What To Look For In A Dealer"

9) Life Style Discovery - I am adding this section because the following topics come up quite a bit "Please Review My Quote”, "What Do You Think", “Will This Work”, “What Should I Purchase” “What Should I Install”, "My Dealer is Recommending the Following”, "New house construction, thoughts on quote", etc. I feel that those who are posting these types of posts are headed towards having a system that will have issues down the road or does not meet their needs & thus, does not fit their lifestyle and that's the key, LIFESTYLE.

The reason I am posting this is to open up the eyes of potential C4 customers as to what their CI should be doing so potential C4 customers will have faith in their CI and not doubt what is being proposed. As a disclaimer we, Digital Studio Werks, are NOT a Control4 dealer we are a Crestron dealer. As in my other postings what I mention below applies to all dealers/customers weather you are looking at C4, Crestron, AMX, Savant, etc.

When we take on a new project and prior to ANY product discussion, we sit down with the client and work to discover their lifestyle. We have a "Client Life Style Discovery Book" that is split up into 10 sections. 100% of the time, when we are done with the "Lifestyle Discovery Process" the client discovers needs they have that they never considered and we know what to design for and what equipment to spec. Now if your CI is looking out for your best interest they would do a "Lifestyle Discovery" prior to quoting you any product or price.

Every time we go into a meeting with a new client (Note: our clients are Architects, Interior Designers and Builders) and we show them the "Client Life Style Discovery Book" we hear comments along the following "This is great no other CI has anything like this", "If our past clients were given this questionnaire by the previous CI's we used they would be getting the most out of their systems", "We do not know how other CI's can quote a project without knowing the clients lifestyle." Whether we are doing one room for an Interior Designer or a whole house for an Architect or Builder we ALWAYS do a "Client Life Style Discovery Questionnaire" as this will determine what equipment will be needed and is NECESSARY while at the same time allowing for growth without over designing a system and wasting a clients $$.

In every single post I read on here, the person posting makes no mention as to their lifestyle or if the CI spent the time to discover their lifestyle and needs. If the CI did a lifestyle discovery it needs to be in writing and based on that they will know best as to what your needs are. If CI did not do a lifestyle discovery then they are guessing as to what your needs are. Without knowing how you live, what your lifestyle is like, how you will use your system, how your family will use your system, etc. no one here can give proper advice other than your CI who should have taken the time out to understand your needs through your lifestyle. The members here can advise you based on THEIR experience and lifestyle but since no 2 systems are alike and no 2 systems are used the same way you are just grabbing at straws as to what you should use or do and it may or may not work for your particular needs/lifestyle.

[cdepaola]

I'm curious though, what is the rationale for not taking on customers who are engineers? Or is you won't take on customers who are engineers that want to be a little hands on with the project because they enjoy said work and its what they do... An example would be a network engineer that wants to set-up his network in his home.

7) The Potential Client "Can Do It" - If the potential client states that they are a network engineer, a software engineer, a computer engineer or any other type of engineer and they can do some of the work, programming, installation, etc. then we do not take them. I am not an instructor of any sorts and thus in order to stay within the cost we gave you and on schedule I can not teach you another trade and thus the client is not for us.

Also you say that you will never install or integrate equipment that is not purchased new from you? So do you carry every brand or are you will to become a dealer of any brand a customer wants? Many people in the audio world are very particular about the equipment they own, I know as I'm one of them. So your client that is about to spend a million plus dollars with you requests Classe, Mcintosh, Krell, Lexicon, or any number of other high end receivers be used, do you carry all of these? I know few dealers who carry every high end line made.

Also I assumed your clients were "educated", after all they are millionaires, just maybe not in any field that would conflict with what you do?

I think the Lifestyle Discovery process sounds very interesting and I'd agree that it seems like something a CI would not only want to do but would need to do to provide such a service to their client.

[ILoveC4]

Hey GoGoDelicious, since the MINIMUM job you do is at least $1MM for a single room, do you care to post some pictures and show us what a multi million dollar HOME THEATER room looks like?

[cdepaola]

A lot of what gets returned is due to product quality... Universal remotes could be the cheapest made product on the planet.

I'm guessing most of these DIY automation products fail because unlike Crestron and C4 they are designed poorly or don't work well. Just a guess

[RyanE]

A lot of what gets returned is due to product quality... Universal remotes could be the cheapest made product on the planet.

According to the well-placed source, 95%+ of what was being returned was *not* a product quality issue.

I'm guessing most of these DIY automation products fail because unlike Crestron and C4 they are designed poorly or don't work well. Just a guess

While that is certainly one facet of why DIY products don't seem to do well, I think another is the audience.

I think this particular crowd (posters at c4forums.com) is likely to be a *LOT* more DIY-saavy than the general public.

RyanE

[GoGo Delicious]

I'm curious though, what is the rationale for not taking on customers who are engineers? Or is you won't take on customers who are engineers that want to be a little hands on with the project because they enjoy said work and its what they do... An example would be a network engineer that wants to set-up his network in his home.

I should have reworded it that better. We do not take on engineers that want to do a specific task, programming, networking, etc themselves in order to stay within the cost we gave and on schedule. Letting a client do their own work will always lead to cost over runs and project delays. Some of our major clients are engineers. Some of our commercial clients are Boeing (Nothing but engineers), Epson, Sony, etc and we work with their IT department and such we are working with engineers.

Also you say that you will never install or integrate equipment that is not purchased new from you? So do you carry every brand or are you will to become a dealer of any brand a customer wants? Many people in the audio world are very particular about the equipment they own, I know as I'm one of them. So your client that is about to spend a million plus dollars with you requests Classe, Mcintosh, Krell, Lexicon, or any number of other high end receivers be used, do you carry all of these? I know few dealers who carry every high end line made.

4

We have a few trusted dealers that we work with to bring in the brands we don't carry. We will even work with a clients audio dealer when it comes to high end speciality audio and video products we do not carry.

Also I assumed your clients were "educated", after all they are millionaires, just maybe not in any field that would conflict with what you do?

A few of our clients are based in the silicon valley, and in VERY HT companies. In fact one of our clients called to discuss an upgrade and had specific ideas to what he wanted to accomplish. I told him no problem we can do that. This is an example of a client who is a a head of a major Silicon Valley HT company, knows what he wants but leaves the details to me as to how to accomplice this. He did not once question the products being suggested, how it would be programmed or how it would function. He trusts us from previous experience with us and us knowing his LIFESTYLE that we will make it work flawlessly and fit in with they way HE uses the system.

I think the Lifestyle Discovery process sounds very interesting and I'd agree that it seems like something a CI would not only want to do but would need to do to provide such a service to their client.

Thanks. This is how we know what to provide to our clients not only in products but in service.

[GoGo Delicious]

Hey GoGoDelicious, since the MINIMUM job you do is at least $1MM for a single room, do you care to post some pictures and show us what a multi million dollar HOME THEATER room looks like?

I don't post pics of my own house, with very few exceptions, let alone of our clients. This is not only due to agreements we have signed with clients but for a host of other reasons. When our current house is complete I am contemplating on releasing promotional images and videos.

Just as we only deal in Crestron for automation we strictly use Clive Christian for interior paneling and furnishings. Here is a link to Clive Christian Furniture. The rooms you will see are from 100K to 1Mil. +. Here is a link to a video that show how Clive Christian furniture and paneling is made.

Note that all furniture and paneling is custom made to order.

[well_armed]

You are like the Maddof fund of Home Automation.

How is that?

We have NEVER ripped off any client and we have NEVER had any type of legal action taken against us. Why would you say something like that if you don't know who I am' date=' never worked with us or know any one who has worked with us. Do you have first hand knowledge how we work with a client?

Also, do you know anyone who is (notice is said IS and not WAS) a victim of Mr. Madoff (you spelled his name wrong above)? I do and I would NEVER accuse anyone of being a Bernie Madoff unless I actually had dealings with them.

It appears you just like to make random accusations with out any first hand knowledge.[/quote']

Yes I know investors in the fund, and yes I know how it was marketed.

My jab was at how you pretend to be this exclusive fund for HNW clients who want Home Automation installation, as they just don't take any schmuck off the street.

[GoGo Delicious]

I don't think people quite get what we do. DSW ONLY works with interior designers and architects. The posting about "What I Look For In A Client" does NOT apply to them. We do not vet-out interior designers or architects like we do with our interior design firm side.

Now the interior design firm side.

My interior design firm only takes on clients where we are doing the WHOLE job. Interior design, lighting design, automation, av system, security system, etc. ALL OF IT. We will NOT take on a client who just want an automation system fro example. If someone comes to us and wants just an automation system and does not want the type of interior design we do, Clive Christian, and they want modern, craftsman, or what ever else, we tell them to have their interior designer contact us.

We never do a standalone AV/Automation project for a client. I am only interested in working with the end user directly if we are doing the interior design. If we are nto doing the interior design then we will work with the clients interior designer.

I hope I made it clear as to what we do and how we work.

[GoGo Delicious]

You are like the Maddof fund of Home Automation.

How is that?

We have NEVER ripped off any client and we have NEVER had any type of legal action taken against us. Why would you say something like that if you don't know who I am' date=' never worked with us or know any one who has worked with us. Do you have first hand knowledge how we work with a client?

Also, do you know anyone who is (notice is said IS and not WAS) a victim of Mr. Madoff (you spelled his name wrong above)? I do and I would NEVER accuse anyone of being a Bernie Madoff unless I actually had dealings with them.

It appears you just like to make random accusations with out any first hand knowledge.[/quote']

Yes I know investors in the fund, and yes I know how it was marketed.

My jab was at how you pretend to be this exclusive fund for HNW clients who want Home Automation installation, as they just don't take any schmuck off the street.

I don't pretend at all.

We are selective as to what type of jobs we take from clients off the street. As I stated above "We never do a standalone AV/Automation project for a client. I am only interested in working with the end user directly if we are doing the interior design. If we are not doing the interior design then we will work with the clients interior designer."

Not all end users want a Clive Christian room for what ever reason, looks, costs, functionality, lifestyle, etc. There are 100's of reasons as to why they would not want that type of design. Thats fine. But that person is not our type of client.

[ILoveC4]

I don't think people quite get what we do. DSW ONLY works with interior designers and architects. The posting about "What I Look For In A Client" does NOT apply to them. We do not vet-out interior designers or architects like we do with our interior design firm side.

Now the interior design firm side.

My interior design firm only takes on clients where we are doing the WHOLE job. Interior design, lighting design, automation, av system, security system, etc. ALL OF IT. We will NOT take on a client who just want an automation system fro example. If someone comes to us and wants just an automation system and does not want the type of interior design we do, Clive Christian, and they want modern, craftsman, or what ever else, we tell them to have their interior designer contact us.

We never do a standalone AV/Automation project for a client. I am only interested in working with the end user directly if we are doing the interior design. If we are nto doing the interior design then we will work with the clients interior designer.

I hope I made it clear as to what we do and how we work.

What's the name of your interior design firm, GoGo? I looked for retailers on the Clive Christian website, and all they say about Newport Beach is they are opening a showroom there "soon". They do have retail store in San Francisco and Beverly Hills though, but that isn't you...right?

I have to say, you're the first ever high end company like this I've heard of that doesn't have pictures of their previous work. You know, a "brag book" of sorts.

[GoGo Delicious]

What's the name of your interior design firm, GoGo? I looked for retailers on the Clive Christian website, and all they say about Newport Beach is they are opening a showroom there "soon". They do have retail store in San Francisco and Beverly Hills though, but that isn't you...right?

Clive Christian only lists those who have actual show rooms. We have opted NOT to have a show room, for various reasons, as we use our house as a show room not just for AV and home automation, but for Clive Christian. Our entire house will be done using Clive Christian. FYI, we are not listed on Crestrons website, Kaleidescape's website, Middle Atlantic's web site, Amina's website or any other product lines we are a dealer for either.

As far as working with Clive, we actually work out of the New York City CLive store. Keep in mind Clive Christian is not the type of furniture where you go in order it and in 3 weeks it's at your door. We actually send rooms designs and drawings in CAD format of the entire room, walls, furniture, flooring, etc to the New York store. There they are reviewed and we are quoted a price and the time it will take. Those plans are then sent to England where all the furniture is is made. It is then shipped over and installed.

I have to say, you're the first ever high end company like this I've heard of that doesn't have pictures of their previous work. You know, a "brag book" of sorts.

The name of the firm is James Anthony Interiors. As far as a web site goes I took it off line at the end of the year for a few reasons. One it was a bit out dated, two, I wanted to use pictures of the house we are currently doing and it will not be done until mid-summer, and three, we had an issue with another CI firm taking pics off our site and using them. When I found out I immediately got on top of that and had them shut down until the pics were removed. I am hoping to have our site back up at the beginning of summer right before our house is done.

We are actually publishing a "Brag Book" it's an actual book by, a book of rooms per se, by Couture Books. That book should be out at the same time as our web site. I am basically doing a complete rebrand of James Anthony Interiors.

IF anyone is interested next time I am in NY, sometime in the next few weeks, we can arrange to meet and I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do. I ask that you be SERIOUS as I am very serious about what I do.

[ILoveC4]

IF anyone is interested next time I am in NY, sometime in the next few weeks, we can arrange to meet and I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do. I ask that you be SERIOUS as I am very serious about what I do.

But James, aren't you forgetting one of your Cardinal rules? You don't work with Forum members, right?

[GoGo Delicious]

IF anyone is interested next time I am in NY' date=' sometime in the next few weeks, we can arrange to meet and I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do. I ask that you be SERIOUS as I am very serious about what I do.[/quote']

But James, aren't you forgetting one of your Cardinal rules? You don't work with Forum members, right?

Read a bit closer, I said "I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do" I didn't say lets do a project together.

[GoGo Delicious]

I am stealing this link from Neil12011.

This is one of the reasons we screen potential clients like we do. It vets-out this particular type of client.

[wappinghigh]

Getting back to basics, as a potential client, which product would you go with?

Control4 with it's way cheaper hardware, dynamic driver writing community and 3rd party integration. Fabulous open minded internet resource (C4forums.com). "Try one room and expand to what ever you want" style architecture...all for around 1K.... Composer HE to tempt you on a bit of self programming.

Or....

Crestron

Oh and Ryan. Your examples are a touch irrelevant. I have never said C4 should be totally 100% DIY. I always take the position of opening it up just a little bit more. Self installed firmware upgrades, Self installed basic new equipment (like swapping out a new TV) Customer designed and changeable input labelling. And self installed idevice drivers. The sort of "let me go to the bathroom and do it myself without my dealer following me in and washing my hands for me" sort of functionality. That would do me just fine

[well_armed]

This thread is hitting the spot today. :

[ILoveC4]

IF anyone is interested next time I am in NY' date=' sometime in the next few weeks, we can arrange to meet and I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do. I ask that you be SERIOUS as I am very serious about what I do.[/quote']

But James, aren't you forgetting one of your Cardinal rules? You don't work with Forum members, right?

Read a bit closer, I said "I will have no problem taking you to the Clive Christian showroom and showing you what we do" I didn't say lets do a project together.

Okay, sorry. It was the line quoted below that made me believe you were interested in meeting with a serious buyer.

I ask that you be SERIOUS as I am very serious about what I do.

[RyanE]

Oh and Ryan. Your examples are a touch irrelevant. I have never said C4 should be totally 100% DIY.

Geez, you ask for examples of DIY control systems that have tried and failed to sell DIY, then you tell me they're irrelevant because you never said C4 should be totally 100% DIY.

Talk about a double-reverse Straw Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man with a full gainer and a half twist!!!

I always take the position of opening it up just a little bit more.

Control4 already allows you (with ComposerHE) to do *all* the configuration / programming of the system, *except* for the "little more" you're asking for.

How is that not 100% DIY?

Have a good weekend.

RyanE