Thoughts? Bad Dealer?

[smarch]

So I thought I would relay a recent story and see what everyone else thought.

Recently I finished of a theatre room. So I was getting quotes on the AV portion of it (projector, screen AV receiver, 7.1 speakers etc etc). For me this added up to a lot of money. My Control4 dealer also sells all of this equipment, so I sent him my list and asked for pricing. He is the only dealer around this area for Control4 products.

Unfortunately his quote on the AV gear came back the highest. I expressed this to him, and told him I would be buying the Control4 stuff from him regardless. dimmers (6) , 300 ntroller and SR250. I also faxed him the 3 other written quotes on the AV gear. His response to me, was sorry I won't sell you the Control4 products unless I'm supplying everything on the list. I asked him to atelast try to match or come close to the others. He would not. The difference was about $1500.00 in total.

So in the end I was forced to buy from him at a premium.

Does this sound right to you?

[TexasBill]

So I thought I would relay a recent story and see what everyone else thought.

Recently I finished of a theatre room. So I was getting quotes on the AV portion of it (projector, screen AV receiver, 7.1 speakers etc etc). For me this added up to a lot of money. My Control4 dealer also sells all of this equipment, so I sent him my list and asked for pricing. He is the only dealer around this area for Control4 products.

Unfortunately his quote on the AV gear came back the highest. I expressed this to him, and told him I would be buying the Control4 stuff from him regardless. dimmers (6) , 300 ntroller and SR250. I also faxed him the 3 other written quotes on the AV gear. His response to me, was sorry I won't sell you the Control4 products unless I'm supplying everything on the list. I asked him to atelast try to match or come close to the others. He would not. The difference was about $1500.00 in total.

So in the end I was forced to buy from him at a premium.

Does this sound right to you?

First off - it is not what I would like in my dealer.

HOWEVER -

Everyone that goes into business does what makes sense to them - if he has to support it and handle warranty returns etc then he has determined that he does not want you going and getting it cheaper somewhere else and then he is stuck with the warranty stuff.

When I first got into the computer business I would have friends ask me what printer they should get or computer - and I would spend all day Sunday working with them on what they should do - then a week or so later I would ask - did you want the printer or computer and they would say - I ordered that from some one else because I saved $35.00. Then when it came in they would ask me if I wanted to come over and "see it" as they unpacked it. This meant that they also wanted me to hook it up etc....

I learned quickly that people will save money any where they can and frequently it was MY time that they wanted to save it on.

So - as long as you realize that this is your dealers attitude you will need to deal with it or get a different dealer - competition frequently solves these type of issues. <grin>

Bill

[wingzz]

no, I would run and find another dealer, there are a few here that will work remotely, ask around

[well_armed]

Why would you buy an HC300?

[neil12011]

I think you already "know" the answer to your question. The fact that you feel you were "forced" to buy from him means you weren't happy with the deal. Dealers, in any medium, should sell themselves, and make you feel that the level of service is worth any extra premium. There are a FEW companies that I will flat out spend my extra hard-earned dollars with, because they offer a superior service/product. James from Diamond Design is a good example. There are other places to buy Dune products and such. But because I feel that his business surpasses others, I will spend my money there, even if it costs more. Products should sell themselves, a good dealer knows this, and knows that in a sense, when people shop (not online) they're buying you, not the so much the product.

[cdepaola]

I would have walked away then promptly emailed or called C4 to share my experience. While they typically don't deal with end users the only way for them to know about bad dealers is for end users to tell them about their experience. A bad dealer gives them a bad name!

[HookedOnC4]

So I thought I would relay a recent story and see what everyone else thought.

Recently I finished of a theatre room. So I was getting quotes on the AV portion of it (projector, screen AV receiver, 7.1 speakers etc etc). For me this added up to a lot of money. My Control4 dealer also sells all of this equipment, so I sent him my list and asked for pricing. He is the only dealer around this area for Control4 products.

Unfortunately his quote on the AV gear came back the highest. I expressed this to him, and told him I would be buying the Control4 stuff from him regardless. dimmers (6) , 300 ntroller and SR250. I also faxed him the 3 other written quotes on the AV gear. His response to me, was sorry I won't sell you the Control4 products unless I'm supplying everything on the list. I asked him to atelast try to match or come close to the others. He would not. The difference was about $1500.00 in total.

So in the end I was forced to buy from him at a premium.

Does this sound right to you?

Everybody has different cost and overhead but with this attitude I would not bye one thing from this dealer. I bought control4 equipment, receiver, TV and stand. I had some equipment that my dealer was glad to hookup and we work together. Not sure were you live but I would be very scared to use this dealer.

[BlueWater84]

I gave my dealer the option of supplying my AV gear to me if he could match the prices I'd found online (I even agreed to pay sales tax on top of the pricing I found online if he would match it). He was unable to even get close to the pricing so all I ended up buying from him was C4 equipment. He understood that business was business and was happy to at least sell me some Control4 equipment. If I were you I'd search for another dealer.

[CFUG]

The problem is OP has limited dealer choices. If he burns-through them what is going to do? Remote jobs are possible but this is not always the way to go. OP- What is it that your dealer is concerned about? If you pay him labor to integrate your goods he shouldn't be worried as long as there is agreement that it's done under T&M. Pretty standard contract stuff. I don't see what the issue is here other than you OK'd the terms and now your rethinking that.

On the other hand, what is this dealer in business for? Control4 is a product that is marketed for retrofit install. What is he thinking, that nobody has any AV equipment to begin with? Pretty shitty business ethic if you ask me. Don't piss him off but don't give him anymore work until he comes to you (if he values repeat business).

[well_armed]

Dealers make money on the service and upgrades (re: labor), equipment margins are not worth the hassle with the advent of the internet.

[RyanE]

Dealers make money on the service and upgrades (re: labor), equipment margins are not worth the hassle with the advent of the internet.

That may be true for more and more dealers these days, but it's not necessarily true of all dealers, and you can't really dictate to a dealer what their mix of margins vs. labor should be.

That said, it does sound like the expectations of the OP vs. what the dealer was expecting were way out of sync, and finding a dealer who was more a T&M proposition would be advantageous.

RyanE

[ekohn00]

+1 on find another dealer.

After 3+ years my dealer knows I will make sure his price is in line. He realizes its better to make less, so long as he makes the sale.

[CFUG]

+1 on find another dealer.

After 3+ years my dealer knows I will make sure his price is in line. He realizes its better to make less, so long as he makes the sale.

Well, maybe. There is a balance to this and consumers that are jerky will be passed-up. My dealer is making a living selling new installs to hot-to-trots. I'm small peanuts and on his back-burner.

[cdepaola]

That said, it does sound like the expectations of the OP vs. what the dealer was expecting were way out of sync, and finding a dealer who was more a T&M proposition would be advantageous.

RyanE

Shouldn't the dealer expectations fall in line with the consumer, its their expectations that matter not the dealers... The only dealer expectations that matter are that they are treated with respect, give access to the property when expected, and paid as expected.

There is a balance to this and consumers that are jerky will be passed-up.

There is a balance, indeed... You have to be nice, however in the end the consumer is the one with the money that pays the bills. Dealers who obviously don't have MY best interest in mind will equally be passed up. Its a slippery slope for all parties involved but dealers need consumers, consumers do not need dealers.

[RyanE]

Shouldn't the dealer expectations fall in line with the consumer, its their expectations that matter not the dealers... The only dealer expectations that matter are that they are treated with respect, give access to the property when expected, and paid as expected.

I disagree, although I understand and certainly agree with the sentiment.

The dealer has the responsibility to ensure that he provides good service to the client. Certain dealers have determined that the best way to do that is to sell and service the equipment they handle in a way that works well for them. This may include not taking on clients who are unwilling to do it 'their way', and not supporting gear that they don't have full confidence in the fact that they can fully control and support it.

IMHO, the first responsibility of the dealer is to the dealership itself, then to the customer, because if the dealership ceases to exist, the customer will not be served.

A dealer certainly can have expectations of a customer, and refuse to take a client if those expectations are not met, just the same as a customer, and it's not up to us to dictate how a dealer does business.

A customer's power is being able to decide to do business or take their business elsewhere.

This is, of course, just *my* opinion, and isn't Control4 doctrine, or anything I've discussed with Control4 dealers or corporate.

RyanE

[CFUG]

^All us consumers really want, at the end of the day, is not to get ripped-off and to be serviced when we flash cash. I don't work anymore but when I did, my company understood that delighting the customer was number one. That was it, deliver on-time and make sure they are happy. But, that's BIG BUSINESS and perhaps not the mantra that all firms hold high. But, we aren't talking about big-business here, we're talking about guys who decided to do what they like. Or, a few guys start a company and hire some who do what they like. Big difference when there is little to no competition in a given region.

Control4 may sell globally but what does that strength do for us the consumer? Ensure that our investment doesn't go to zero-value anytime soon? OK, maybe some think that. We consumers have only one place to go with gripes and that is to a guy or a group that can say take it or leave it?? I don't know Ryan, I think you've hit a low with this one my friend.

We've lost some good people here recently and I don't pretend to know why but I think I got a few ideas why...

[CFUG]

smarch- I hear you man. But, you do have a system installed and hopefully it works so put the dollars/cents issue behind you and move on.

[cdepaola]

IMHO, the first responsibility of the dealer is to the dealership itself, then to the customer, because if the dealership ceases to exist, the customer will not be served.

The dealership will cease to exist with that attitude as any business that puts themselves first and the customer second will fail.

[RyanE]

I don't think anything of what I've said is a 'new low'.

While I agree that a dealership that doesn't delight their customer could possibly cease to exist, I don't agree that all dealerships are going to be run the same way, or will even work with all available customers.

This is along the same lines as what James was discussing, re: How to determine what customers to not take.

I'm certainly not saying that dealers should rip off customers, etc., but they have to run their business the best way they know how.

RyanE

[CFUG]

Our OP was in a tough spot- no other dealer around him. The way I read this is one, dealer choose to hang-up on a complete job over just the equipment. Two, my take on what you said is like, so, Control4 is served by it's dealer body and that's the extent of caring? Please clarify because certainly I respect you and Control4 very much.

[cdepaola]

"what customers to not work with"

Wow, I would fire my employees if any of them told me they decided to not work with a customer.

[ekohn00]

The dealer has the responsibility to ensure that he provides good service to the client.

With regard to forcing a client to buy equipment without a discount or no C4....... sorry that is BS!

[eytanvestin]

I have to chime in and I hope I do not offend anyone. I see a lot of negative posts including this one about C4 dealers and their mode of operations...

Here are few Facts:

1. C4 dealers are usually also resellers for other AV equipment such as Samsung, Panasonic, Crestron, URC, etc.

2. AV companies are "for profit" companies.

3. Most AV companies have employees and additional overhead.

4. Respectable AV companies work very hard for their customers so they can get repeat business and referrals.

Those are facts that the company I own since 2001 obeys by.

I know dealers like myself:

1. Do not want to install products customers may have purchased over the internet or @ one of the retail chain stores because:

a. They do not want the liability for a piece of equipment purchased somewhere else.

(I can't remember the amount of times customers called us for a defective product they purchased @ costco or over the internet that we installed)...

b. They lose a substantial part of $$$ on profit on equipment sale (and believe me when I say that dealer's profit have gone radically down in the past 10 years).

As I previously stated - AV integrators are "for profit" companies.

- As the owner of my company, I have made a business decision, few years ago, to work with customers who purchased equipment elsewhere but have a contract which stipulates that we are not responsible for poor performance results or defects in the equipment they have not purchased from us.

- C4 and all other AV manufacturers have dealer locators on their respective websites. If you are unhappy with one dealer's response, go to the next one until you find someone willing to work with you and you with them; it's a two way street. Some dealers will work on a Time & Material basis.

Last but not least - I personally have customers who I have known and still work for since we opened in 2001!

I view my business relationship as a long term relationship, one that benefits us as well as the customer.

Thank you for your time.

[RyanE]

I don't comment officially for Control4 on this forum.

A dealer is certainly within their rights to refuse to service a customer.

Is it how I'd do business? Probably not.

Is it how Control4 would like dealers to behave? I can't speak to that point, but probably not.

I don't know what else you want me to clarify. As I don't know where the OP is posting from, or have any details about how well the job went, I don't know that there's much to comment on.

RyanE

[drro]

My next door neighbor loves to come "chat" with service providers who come to my house. He entices them with thoughts that he will give them lucrative new work. They perform services for him, sometimes. He then offers them a fraction of the agreed price. If they refuse, he won't pay. Whenever I see this going on, I try to warn the service provider. I hope that they have the good sense to turn down his business. Platitudes aside, sometimes deciding not to work with a particular customer is exactly the right thing to do.